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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Andreas Pietzowski on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @12:27
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Sure, KDE should be a free desktop and <b>not</b> a religious assimilation-software!
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Felix Rodriguez on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @12:29
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Why should this particular application be excluded just because it is religious in nature? It would be like excluding a recipe software because you have something against chefs.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Felix Rodriguez on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @12:29
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Why should this particular application be excluded just because it is religious in nature? It would be like excluding a recipe software because you have something against chefs.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by wSaintx on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @12:30
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This is silly, if you want support for 8 more religions then contribute it!!
It is like if you said: I don't want Wine unless it can run 0S/2 programs too.
Come on, my agnostic friend, don't let your faith shadow your mind! ;-)
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Evan "JabberWokky" E. on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @13:33
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>> If v2.0 will include support for at least 10 different religions, ok, go for it, otherwise don't!
I agree. If:
Krayon does not include .gif support. I have a political problem with Unisys and the LZW .gif fiasco. Also, since a large percentage of the population is colorblind, it should only support greyscale images.
noatun removes all support and reference to the Franhauffer's MP3 codec. Since it is not Free, it should be removed. Ogg Vorbis can remain.
KDevelop does not support native tools for the One True Language, InterCal. Since it excludes programmers, it should be removed immediatly.
Now that speech synthesis is just starting to work, KDE will able to be published, but it is fantastically rude and rather nasty to publish it when the blind cannot use it. We should immediatly take ftp.kde.org offline until this situation is rectified.
In addition, make sure that those "10 different religions" that you mention include dogma from the Church of the Subgenius (Praise "Bob"!), the Principia Discordia (Hail Eris!), the Church of the Great Silicon Ghod (Foo), several thousand sect writings, and the whole lot must be reviewed by the Pope and the one chosen representitive of Allah (all of them) to make sure it is allowed to be distributed.
Oh, and I respect you so much for both the act of censoring an application that many could use, and the incredible strength that is necessaary to stand up to groups like the Scientologists (who are rumored to have killed to protect their secrets) when you demand that their Operating Level Theten III (OT III) be published.
I'm not saying that this should be placed in the distribution. But *if* "we" (the vague majority of active KDE users and developers) wanted any sort of app like this in KDE, then it takes one religion to start the ball rolling, even if three seconds later, you commit the Torah, the Koran, and the Book of the Subgenius and Revelation X annotation applications.
I would imagine that most KDE apps are written in one languge at one point. That doesn't mean their existance or that it is the programmers desire to steer KDE towards German or English only.
I'm very glad for the existance of this app: it shows that the popular niche applications are being addressed. It wouldn't bother me at al if it were included in the distro, no more than if KDE Quake were included (which I wouldn't use at all, either).
For that matter, a very real example: does Kapital support all currency and transaction / account types? Does that mean it wouldn't make an excellent addition to KOffice?
--
Evan
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by craig on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @15:47
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Give me a break. Its an app review up please lets keep anti-religious prejudice out of it.
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Cool it
by Navindra Umanee on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @16:06
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Good one, Per Wigren. I am an agnostic myself (ie I do not have any particular beliefs or non-beliefs) and yet I was originally very eager to have Bibletime reviewed and featured on the dot.
Nobody ever said anything about including Bibletime in the distribution, it is only a REVIEW, so I think you should cool it and let people who ARE interested in this app check it out. Like, live and let live.
And really, even if, and that's a big if, Bibletime ever gets included in KDE, so what? It'll probably go into the kde-religion package with a dozen other contributions. So just feel free to ignore it and let other people enjoy the app. Heck, I might check it out myself. I'm sure there's something there that could be learned.
It's all a matter of respect and tolerance.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Eric Laffoon on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @16:52
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> Please don't include this one in the distribution!
I don't recall any mention of this being suggested to be in the distribution. There are a number of KDE apps not in the distribution. In theory the distributed apps should be the most widely useful and practical and should not be swollen in size unless it can pass the tests. Bibletime would add a lot of size if you included every optional text and lexican. Where exactly would it be put? In libs, base, utils? I doubt it. I can see it going into a general apps module should one materialize, but not the main distribution.
> If v2.0 will include support for at least 10 different religions, ok, go for it, otherwise don't!
I expected to read things here that took different tones amounting to some form of opposition to this software. Excuse me for a second... in ancient Rome Christians were fed to the lions for entertainment... I assume people are also familiar with the holocaust and the suffering of the Jews there in. I think those of these faiths have paid their dues to stand on their own.
Now, just like I get really tired of people suggesting that such and such open source project ought not to have been done, or that programmers on one project ought to go to another... this is a terrible idea. If someone feels strongly about their convictions and wants to produce an electronic means of studying the bible it is quite ludicrous to suggest they ought to now assume the mantle of setting up documentation for the other world religions. Isn't it?
First they used another open source project for the texts called SWORD. Second, with all due respect to those of other faiths and good intents, there are a number of extremist sects of other faiths that could be termed, in the most benevolent terms, hostile towards Christians. There are also places in the world that do not allow foreign Christian missionaries to come and provide food, clothing and assistance to their populations while children suffer and die due to religious belief systems so diametricly opposed that they view the Christian's help as interfering with divine judgement. I say this not to point fingers or start a war of beliefs... only to point out that it is absurd to suggest that someone should add such diametricly opposed views to their work.
Someone who signs off as an agnostic suggesting that people of one belief ought to do the work of others with other belief systems is truly absurd.
> // Per Wigren, agnostic
And being an American I recognize your right to Agnosticism. I would hope however that "good news for modern man" can now be seen as a good thing for those hoping such a project would reach this stage on KDE. I can only hope that those who likely otherwise preach tolerance for other religions and beliefs can demonstrate that now (not that this post was particularly intolerant but I would bet some will be).
If you are not a Christian fine. If you are not curious about the historical nature of the bible, fine. It would be really nice to see someone say they're not a Christian but they're happy to see this for those who are though instead of many of the talkbacks I've read that seem to be searching for some reason to be unhappy about this software.
Just like any other piece of software, if you don't like it... don't use it. But from the standpoint of an application for KDE Bibletime is impressive in scale and function compared to the usual KDE app. I think all people who support KDE ought to be proud that such a tool now exists on KDE. As for other religious beliefs... hey, if you believe otherwise nobody is stopping you. Take Bibletime as an encouragement and go for it.
Congrats to the Bibletime team. This is another big win for KDE.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Me on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @18:37
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> If v2.0 will include support for at least 10
> different religions, ok, go for it, otherwise
> don't!
There is no one hindering other religious groups
to put their texts throught the sword engine and
provide the necessary database.
In fact, for the Onlinebible (www.onlinebible.org) you can get a translated Koran (a contradiction in itself, by the way, muslim people tend to make sure that the Koran was never translated ... smile)
I understand that Sword took some texts from the Online Bible project.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Simon Kenyon on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @08:05
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please do not include bibletime in the kde distribution. if you do i will move to gnome and
i've been using kde for a *long* time now.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Mirko Kloppstech on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @21:36
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Why not? What gives you he right to judge that a web browser is useful but such a program is not? Konqueror does only display web relevant file types, not Microsoft office documents and such. Shall I conclude that Konqueror should be excluded until it conforms to Microsoft?
In other words: An application does not have to support everything. If somebody wants to write an app for reading the Koran, he is heartily invited. But as only few readers of the koran will ever read the Bible, a common app is not sensible!
Mirko
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