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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Per Wigren on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @12:54
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No, it's not. Religion is the cause of many wars. I have never heard of a war started by chefs because they couldn't agree on recipes.. :)
And BTW, I don't think a recipe program with fixed recipes would be of much use... :)
KDE is distributed and used all over the world. Christianity is the smallest of all world religions. I bet that there are some islam countries that will *BAN* the whole of KDE if Bibeltime is included.
(Disclaimer: My mother tongue is not english and I don't know the english names of most religions, books and even less how to spell them. That's why I have a hard time keeping this debate in english:)
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by David G. Watson on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @13:04
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I REALLY don't want to start a flamewar, but Christianity is definitely NOT the smallest of the world religions. In fact, if you count all the different types, it's actually the LARGEST. IIRC, there are ~1B Catholics, and ~1B Orthodox/Protestant/Others.
And just to show I'm not smoking crack, from http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html, it says that 33% of the world's population is Christian.
Now, I highly doubt that most of them actually are (just as most people who claim to be Moslem/Buddist/whatever really practice their faith), but going on what people say, doesn't it make sense that there would be a Bible-reading program, and not a Koran-study tool? :)
And I HIGHLY doubt that Islamic countries would ban the Christian Bible. After all, they ACCEPT most of it, except for the New Testament.
Besides - who cares if they do? I just saw on Slashdot yesterday that Afghanistan has outlawed the Internet.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Per Wigren on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @13:19
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Ok, I stand corrected, but I was referring to those who practice their religion. I'm probably counted as a christian because I'm born in a christian country (Sweden) and I'm baptised (is that the right word?) in church when I was about 3 months old. I also haven't yet left church yet so I'm still paying their taxes.. Yet, I don't consider myself christian.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Shrek on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @14:35
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if you count all the different types, it's actually the LARGEST.
Is it really one religion if there are so many "different types", and the many members of those different types can't seem get along with one another? For example, Catholics may form the largest portion of Christians, but they aren't exactly buddies with Protestants or Orthodox Church followers. They may have the same fundamental beliefs, but the similarities end there.
Anyway, enough of that rant.
I believe that we have enough religion in our software already (the religion of open source). Do we really need any more? Including this programme in the KDE distro could offend a great many people worldwide (remember, most of the world isn't Christian). We should leave it out and have it freely downloadable on its own just like any other app. People should not be forced to install it if they want KDE.
There is absolutely no harm in leaving it out, but we could open a whole can of worms if we do include it. If someone wants it, they can install it. If they don't, then fine. Everybody is happy.
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The Dot is messed up!
by Shrek on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @14:38
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Hey, the server's not accepting HTML as it should!
I have to try several times to post messages, since I keep getting Zope errors.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Timothy R. Butler on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @00:54
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You said:
Is it really one religion if there
are so many "different types", and
the many members of those different
types can't seem get along with one
another? For example, Catholics may
form the largest portion of
Christians, but they aren't exactly
buddies with Protestants or Orthodox
Church followers. They may have the
same fundamental beliefs, but the
similarities end there.
Actually the similarities don't end there. While we have our disagreements on certain issues, for the most part Christians can set this aside (there are always exceptions to such rules), and recognize that we truly are one religon - the
one universal Christian church (Catholic means universal, btw). Just so you know my position, I am a evangelical protestant Christian. Now, I will quit, since I don't think that the Dot is a good place to get in a theological discussion, but I just had to point this out as David's figures are very much correct - Christianity is the largest religion according to more than just one poll.
That aside, I would ask why anyone is getting in an uproar about a simple review of a Bible program.
-Tim
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by craig on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @02:20
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OK since you brought it up. I'm catholic and i'm buddies and have biblestudy with protestants on a weekly basis. In fact the Catholic church has letters of understanding with several protestant churches. So your statements are a bit misleading. In reality we are one faith.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Shrek on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @08:22
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Yeah, I did exaggerate a bit to make my point. What I'm trying to say is Christianity is nowhere near as cohesive as other large religions like, say, Hinduism (which would have about a billion followers). But enough of that (it's <i>way</i> off topic).
<br>
My main thrust is that there is absolutely no need to include this app in the KDE <i>distribution</i>. Its inclusion would mean that anybody who wants KDE would be forced to install this app (unless they compile tarballs - yuck). Remember, over two thirds (and growing) of the world's population is <i>not</i> Christian, and many Christians are non-practising (especially in more developed nations). Some people may see the forced installation (in that it isn't easy to install KDE without it) as an insult. To get KDE accepted worldwide, we need to make sure that we offend other cultures as little as possible.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am not anti-Christian, nor am I against this app existing. It <i>should</i> be freely available, just like any other app. However, I don't believe it is important enough to be included in the KDE distribution. If a distro provider like Mandrake wanted to include it, then fine. Including it in KDE, however, could do more harm than good.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Craig on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @13:08
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I think that everyone agreed that it would be cool to have it in a seperate package labeled religion.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Shrek on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @13:53
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I have no qualms with that.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Chris Bordeman on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @16:47
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I agree it shouldn't be in the distro, since it is clearly not an app most people would use. I think the guy who's motivation is simply to censor anything religious, a prime example of liberal intolerance of any thinking not in line with their own narrow views.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Shrek on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @04:19
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By reading the guy's other posts, I don't believe that he wants to censor anything. He was just saying that it shouldn't be in the main distro (maybe in a separate religion package). The concern is that we should not promote one religion over another, lest we offend other faiths. The best way for KDE to not offend anybody is to do nothing and stay secular (as KDE has always done). There is nothing <i>wrong</i> with this app, but people just shouldn't be forced to install it as part of KDE (they should have the choice). That's what I think he was trying to say, so in other words he is in agreement with us.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Per Wigren on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @19:40
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Thank you! My intention was never to start a religious war... :)
I should have been clearer in my first post so I wouldn't get so many flaimbait-answers that I just *HAD* to bite back on.... :-)
May whatever-you-put-your-faith-in be with you!
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Rick Kreikebaum on Saturday 21/Jul/2001, @22:00
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actually, it is not right to group christianity by churches, like protestantism and catholicism and such. christianity should be defined as believing in the bible and living your life accordingly. some common catholic practices such as praying to mary and the saints are simply not biblical, therefore people that follow such practices should not be considered christian regardless of their "label." i'm not saying that people that label themselves by church cannot be true christians. i just think it can be misleading. as a christian, i don't label myself as "babtist" or "catholic" or "protestant" or anything like that. i label myself as "christian," which means "follower of christ," which is what i am.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Felix Rodriguez on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @13:13
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Religion isn't the only cause of wars. We can point to Land, Oil, Money etc. Taking your analogy one step further would mean that we should not include a financial application in KDE because money was used to start a war. Or we should no longer drive cars because Oil is evil and it is the cause of many wars.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Per Wigren on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @13:27
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Aw, come on! I have no problem with the program. Linux distributions can include it all they want. I just don't think it's right to include it in the *KDE* distribution! A financial application has lots of uses. Bibletime has only ONE use, and that is to study the christian bible.
What if we included a program with the only use to study the satanic black bible (or whatever it is called) instead? Would there be any objections then?
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Felix Rodriguez on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @13:35
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Ok I concede the point. Maybe it shouldn't be included in the KDE Distribution because it might offend some people.
I was more concerned about people who where looking to use a good bible-study software with KDE would not no that there was one available.
The intention was not to force others to use a product that they would not want to use.
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by craig on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @15:48
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This is no place to spread your anti religous hate!!
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by Carbon on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @21:49
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This is no place to spread your anti-(anti-religous) hate!!! ;-)
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by craig on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @01:04
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Ok you got me lol
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Re: Apps Roundup #2: Focus on Bibletime 1.0
by David G. Watson on Monday 16/Jul/2001, @12:57
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<shameless plug>
Funny you should mention that - Cookbook is going into kdenonbeta as soon as I can get my CVS password fixed :). (It's going into nonbeta because of the freeze, not because it's unstable)
Cookbook is a KDE recipe program written by yours truly - and it's now translated to German, thanks to Kevin Krammer. You can get it at http://www.mcs.kent.edu/~dwatson/cookbook.html .
</shameless plug>
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