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Re: KDE 2.2 Release Schedule Update
by Justin Hibbits on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @17:22
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This may sound like a flame, but it is just a little glimpse of reality.
One thing that would really help is if they were to actually TEST the system. I am still running KDE 2.1, but I wish I were back at 1.1.2, at least that never crashed, and I don't push KDE any more now than I did then, and it is still very slow and unstable. Word of advice to you KDE developers, TEST THE ENVIRONMENT UNTIL IT BREAKS, THEN TEST IT SOME MORE!!!! KDE is getting so bad, it is sinking almost to the level of Winblows. I am a developer, and I want speed and power, I don't care about DCop, which just bogs down the system. I took one look at the ps -awx output and nearly went insane, the kdeinit fork for dcop is (VSZ)13 MEGS!!!! Now where the hell did they go from 100k in the benchmarks to 13MB in the practice? And I thought the session manager was supposed to stay out of the way, how does that take up 13 MB of virtual memory? There must be memory leaks somewhere. Now, did someone happen to write a "desktop2kdelnk" program, the reverse of kdelnk2desktop?
All I can say now is their actions are getting to be stupid, sacrificing performance, speed, memory, and stability for some more bells and whistles that half of us don't want or need? That is plain stupid. I just say they should go back to writing code like in KDE1.1.2, now to fish out my Mandrake 7.1 CD's for the kde1.1.2 source...I know their somewhere around here... |
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Re: KDE 2.2 Release Schedule Update
by ik on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @19:16
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apart from the fact your writing style is not really forum-compatible, you most probably have a problem with your kde installation. kde 2.1 was perfectly stable for me, dcop is not that big here (and i experimented a lot with dcop yet ...)
if you really think you have discovered bugs, please report them instead of the vague whining you do here. in my experience, kde developers really investigate bug reports..
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dcopserver memory usage
by Wilco on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @20:14
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I know you're just trolling, but I want to get rid of some misunderstanding of memory usage. dcopserver's /proc/#pid/status tells me:
VmSize: 15500 kB
VmLck: 0 kB
VmRSS: 860 kB
VmData: 340 kB
VmStk: 24 kB
VmExe: 36 kB
VmLib: 14460 kB
Since you're a programmer you should now that VmLib is shared between all applications. This leaves about 340+24+46=410kB of memory consumed by dcopserver.
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Re: dcopserver memory usage
by Knut Stolze on Friday 20/Jul/2001, @19:42
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Although I don't agree with the style of the original poster, I think he has a point on some respect.
In my system, I have 30 kdeinit processes running:
- 3x kicker: 3MB each
- noatun: 5MB (not active)
- 2x artsd: 3MB each (not active)
- 8x konsole: 1.5MB each
- 3x kdesktop: 1MB each
- various other things
This is just the memory used on the heap. I think for each of these, this is quite a lot in terms of memory consumption. Also, for some I cannot understand why multiple processes are running, e.g. artsd. Maybe these are threads...
What really scares me, though, is that there is a lot of infrastructure missing:
- no memory management to track leaks (after 2 months being logged in, even the smallest leak becomes a big problem)
- no tracing
For instance, 'artsd' likes produce some deadlock in the kernel (at least that's my theory) and wastes a lot of resources that way. But there is no other way to support the developer in finding the problem that to say: "there is a problem". How are the odds that this will be fixed? Not very good, I'd say. I was hoping that this particular problem will be fixed in 2.2 (I reported it a while ago), but it still appears in beta1. Having a trace facility in place would help very much by being able to take a trace when the problem occurs.
This is a common feature in commercial applications. Why not in something as complex as KDE?
Knut
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I thought you actually sounded like a troll.
by Gilded Rooster on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @20:45
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I thought you actually sounded like a troll. You need to take a look at your installation. Even if you're a "developer" you likely have not done it correctly. Please understand that the aim of the KDE project not to produce the same thing as twm. KDE is a sophisticated environment. KDE developers try to create the best environment on any platform, and this means there will be some extra space. Unlike Microsoft, etc. KDE developers are true innovators and are working with the GCC creators to improve the speed of the program. They are using realistic requirements to create good systems.
Please respect KDE developers for their efforts.
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Re: I thought you actually sounded like a troll.
by Marc Spisländer on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @09:28
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You say KDE developers are real innovators. I use KDE and I am quite pleased with it. But I wonder which innovations you mean! Is there any cool feature (and usefull, too) that MS had not first?
I realised this when I did the change from Windows to KDE. My girl friend, who is far away to be a computer specialist, didn't even remarked, that she was working with KDE and not with Windows.
Maybe there are innovations from the developer's point of view. But the users must look very carefully to see the real differences between Win and KDE. Of course there are thinks working better in KDE, but I wouldn't call them innovations!
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Re: I thought you actually sounded like a troll.
by David G. Watson on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @12:10
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Here are some innovations that I haven't seen in Windows (maybe they're in ME or 2K, but I haven't had any desire to try them out):
The audiocd:/ ioslave - copy mp3 files directly from an audio CD, without the need for an intermediate program (it's done automagically for you).
Internet Keyword Search: put 'gg:foobar' into the konqy location bar, and take a look what it does :). Same works for more other search engines, plus dictionary, etc. It's also configuratble.
KParts: real embedding of whole applications, which "take over" the window when you want to edit the embedded data.
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Re: I thought you actually sounded like a troll.
by Marc Spisländer on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @20:55
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OK, the audiocd:/ is an improvement. The next Windows generation will support this and burning CD as well, as far as I know.
The "gg:xxx" is not bad but, in my eyes, not a breakthrough. If you want to start sofisticated searches you have to go directly to the Google site as well. Of course you could set parameters into the gg-Statement, but then we have a fundamental problem: we must decide: command line or GUI. And KDE-user prefer the GUI, I guess.
KParts: This does Windows as well. They call it OLE or something like this.
A really innovation for me is the possibility to access FTP within the open dialog of any application.
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Re: I thought you actually sounded like a troll.
by Tackat on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @12:19
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Text-Previews using mimetype-icon-"watermarks" to display filetype + content. Damn I should have patented that idea ;^) !
Greetings,
Tackat
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Re: I thought you actually sounded like a troll.
by Marc Spisländer on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @21:09
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Is this really an innovation? And Windows does this as well (I'm not sure, I use Windows very seldom.).
I admit, it is a nice feature. Specially for me, for whom the optic is very important. If a program looks ugly, it will be a problem for me to use it.
By the way: on my system if I change the content of a text file the text preview doesn't update.
My opinion is: KDE is not more or less full of innovations than Windows. I could mention as many innovations in Windos as you probably could for KDE:
* menu items that disappear if they aren't used often
* the web view for directories which tells you how many free space you have (helpfull for beginners)
* auto completion in IE
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Re: KDE 2.2 Release Schedule Update
by Mark Roberts on Tuesday 17/Jul/2001, @20:46
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If you feel so strongly that KDE needs more testing, why don't you start building the sources from CVS every few days, and submit some quality bug reports? Better still, seeing as you are a developer, why not debug some of the problems yourself, and submit some quality, well tested patches?
Or if you really don't like the direction KDE development is taking, why not produce your own fork of the KDE 1.1.2 sources, and add the features that you do think are worthwhile? I'm sure no one would be offended, and you would probably attract a number of other developers who feel the same way as you - after all, if you look at apps.kde.com you will see many projects that continue to release new versions based on the 1.1.2 libraries.
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Re: KDE 2.2 Release Schedule Update
by Justin Hibbits on Wednesday 18/Jul/2001, @10:21
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Actually, several people have visited my home page for my new DE, based on a new toolkit, which will be similar to KDE 1.1.2, so the stability will be apparent. If you know anyone who would like to code this, have them send me some mail. As for building from CVS, and bug reports/patches, I am too busy to do that, and my computer isn't even on the internet, I am doing everything through CD's and floppys with multi-volume archives. And, what I've noticed is that it isn't KDE that's really the major issue, it's just really too slow, it's really kdevelop running in KDE, which refuses to place itself correctly on startup, and some other problems that I won't mention, since this isn't a kdevelop forum.
As a little history, KDE 2.1 Beta was probably more stable for me, just slightly, though. Maybe the problem is in my compiler....does anyone have any problems using KDE compiled with gcc 2.95.3?
Enough of this, I think I've learned my lesson...don't post messages that sound like flames...if you want it done right, do it yourself...blah, blah, blah...and use IceWM with kdesktop for speed, power, and memory considerations....
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