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Re: Miguel...
by reihal on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @04:35
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What are you doing here then? Trolling?
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Re: Miguel...
by Moritz Moeller-Herrmann on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @04:48
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> You can't possible mean that it's not a good desktop?!
It is a much better desktop than kde-1.2 right now, but from my (admittedly short) plunges into Gnome-1.4, there is still alot missing. E.g. Xmms is nice, but does not "fit" into the desktop one bit. Same for Mozilla.
I would miss the internet awareness of KDE. The seamlessness. Everything just looks the same, behaves the same and so on. Gnome is pretty, but not as streamlined. And I would miss stable true type font support with AA.
Abiword e.g. is nice, but not very gnome specific. Could you please explain to me why I would ever choose the gnome variant of an app over a gtk variant? What do I get, what do I miss?
Finally Red Carpet: What is this? "Red Carpet, the update tool for ximian is a killerapp" It does not work with my distribution, it will trickily remove KDE (from what I have heard), it will modify my stystem. How is updating an "killer app" ? Check out SuSE You or Debian aptget. Same thing. Not very desktop specific.
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Re: Miguel...
by Marko Samastur on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @09:57
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Why did you install Koffice, if you don't need it?
It's not a part of standard set of KDE packages so it's very unlikely, it got installed by itself.
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Re: Miguel...
by Morgan Tong on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @14:56
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It is generally accepted that GNOME has not cought up with KDE 2.0 yet. Even most GNOME developers will say this (they point to Gnome 2.0, which seems to be a collection of test apps right now).
Kmail has ALL the email features that Evolution does. The extra stuff in Evolution are either features that are in other KDE applications (such as knode).
Ximian desktop and menus bloated compared to KDE? hah. I think you have that the other way around. Nautilus is WAY more bloated than konqueror is.
Other than that, I think GNOME development has basically slowed down to a point that it will take 1). a long time for GNOME 2.0 to be released 2). continue to lose market share, after getting a lot of market share with GNOME 1.2.
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Re: Miguel...
by Yama on Friday 07/Sep/2001, @00:07
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I am a fan of both KDE and GNOME, and I use apps from both environments. However, I have been using GNOME as my main environment since the 1.0.x days. I should add that I am not trying to troll. I am simply stating why I like GNOME over KDE in order to provide constructive criticism for KDE (and some for GNOME as well).
I have found that nothing can beat the configurability of the Sawfish WM and the GNOME panel. There are literally <i>hundreds</i> of keybinding options for Sawfish, and it is very easy to configure an environment that requires no mouse use at all. Sawfish is also very extensible, with its own LISP-like scripting language. There are Sawfish scripts available on some websites, and many add unique and interesting functionality. It is still very user-friendly, and a great deal can be done via its GUI menu options. If you don't like Sawfish, GNOME makes it easy to switch to another WM (I sometimes use Enlightenment or IceWM instead).
In the panel department, the GNOME Panel is extremely configurable. You can put panels wherever you want, and even have them floating in the middle of the screen (not off an edge). They can be any size you want, and its applets (e.g. the Deskguide and Taskbar applets) tend to have more configuration options than applets for other types of panel. This is just a small fraction of what it can do.
GNOME most certainly needs some polishing when it comes to little things like drag-'n-drop support. It is more loosely-coupled than KDE by design. This has been beneficial in that you can add/remove components (e.g. WMs and desktop managers) as you please, giving the user more choice and flexibility while creating a spirit of healthy competition and co-operation (yes, you can have both) amongst developers. However, it is also a disadvantage in that it is less integrated, making it less user-friendly for the newbie.
I believe that GNOME is like this because its focus in the past has not been the ordinary user, unlike the KDE Project. GNOME was made by hackers for hackers, and has only targetted ex-Windos users comparatively (to KDE) recently. This is meant to be addresseed by GNOME 2.0 and beyond, but I doubt that GNOME would (or could) fully dump its previous development method (i.e. loose and flexible) for a more integrated KDE-like approach. After all, the <i>developers</i> have the final say in what direction the project takes, and I can't imagine veteran GNOME hackers dumping their old beliefs. The more options that you give someone, the harder it is to integrate them, and the more likely it is that you'll confuse the user. In other words, there is a trade-off between user-friendliness and configurability, and this is GNOME's predicament. They are doing a good job (IMHO) at picking defaults for some things and limiting the amount of choices to the user, so that they don't become confused. For example, the Sawfish configuration options has a beginner/intermediate/expert setting to determine which options are made available to the user. Nautilus has a similar setup. However, more work needs to be done here.
I remember reading an article recently about Ximian, which stated their three target markets. The first is existing GNOME users. It is far easier to keep a customer than to gain a new one. Ximian supports distros like Red Hat and Debian better than they support distros like Mandrake and Suse because there are a much larger proportion of GNOME users in them. The second is the underprivileged. This diverse group includes schools, poorer people and nations, and the disabled. There is much usability work going into GNOME to enable things like mouseless operation, which is vital for many people. The third target market is the corporate desktop. This is the area that is receiving the most support, through contributions by corporations like Sun, HP and Red Hat. Evolution, for example, has been deliberately engineered to be a drop-in replacement for MS Outlook (hence the same look and feel), which has become firmly entrenched on corporate desktops. I am not a programmer, but from what I have read it appears that Kparts is more suited to single desktop than to a large network, whereas Bonobo (which is based on CORBA) is built for the enterprise (CMIIW). This can explain why GNOME chose a CORBA-based solution over something faster, like Kparts.
Note that in the three target markets I just mentioned, there is no mention at all of the consumer desktop market, which is where KDE is mostly pointed.
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Re: Miguel...
by Jon on Friday 07/Sep/2001, @00:46
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'I can't see one compelling reason for me to switch to KDE.'
The compelling reasons for me:
1) Konqueror
The best free UNIX web browser - along with Mozilla (which is more standards compliant, but has created YET ANOTHER completely new set of widgets to bloat your memory with)... and that's only a small part of what Konqueror does. File manager, ftp client, Audio CD ripping front end... it's what Nautilus could have been in about 2 years if Eazel had spent another 30 million (!) on it.
2) Kate / KWrite
Now this is a lovely text editor -- pity it doesn't have Python highlighting like the 2.1 KWrite did, though.
3) KDevelop
Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
4) The new printing architecture
If I had the money I'd send the guy who wrote this £50 as a thank you. Combined with CUPS this FINALLY makes KDE as a whole a decently integrated system.
--
Other reasons:
Whenever I use Gnome the dark and blurry icons hurt my eyes.
KDE has a pretty dragon mascot. Gnome can't even manage a whole leg.
KDE actually seems to have been people developing it in the last year. It's finally reached the stage with 2.2 where it feels polished.
I don't like the arrogance and attitude of De Icaza. You can trust Germans. (and this is coming from someone from the UK :)
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