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Re: Miguel...
by Moritz Moeller-Herrmann on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @04:48
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> You can't possible mean that it's not a good desktop?!
It is a much better desktop than kde-1.2 right now, but from my (admittedly short) plunges into Gnome-1.4, there is still alot missing. E.g. Xmms is nice, but does not "fit" into the desktop one bit. Same for Mozilla.
I would miss the internet awareness of KDE. The seamlessness. Everything just looks the same, behaves the same and so on. Gnome is pretty, but not as streamlined. And I would miss stable true type font support with AA.
Abiword e.g. is nice, but not very gnome specific. Could you please explain to me why I would ever choose the gnome variant of an app over a gtk variant? What do I get, what do I miss?
Finally Red Carpet: What is this? "Red Carpet, the update tool for ximian is a killerapp" It does not work with my distribution, it will trickily remove KDE (from what I have heard), it will modify my stystem. How is updating an "killer app" ? Check out SuSE You or Debian aptget. Same thing. Not very desktop specific. |
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Re: Miguel...
by Stof on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @08:45
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> Same for Mozilla.
Mozilla is not part of GNOME, it's independend.
If you want a browser that integrates better than Mozilla, use Galeon.
> And I would miss stable true type font support with AA.
Actually, there is already a patch for AA for GTK+ 1.2.
It's not perfect, but AA and font hinting will be supported completely in GTK+ 2.0.
> Abiword e.g. is nice, but not very gnome specific. Could you please explain
> to me why I would ever choose the gnome variant of an app over a gtk variant?
> What do I get, what do I miss?
GNOME dialog boxes, the use of gnome-print.
The GTK+ version is for people who, for some weird reason, thinks gnome-libs is "bloated", or simply doesn't have gnome-libs installed (though I can't imagine why anybody doesn't want to install gnome-libs).
Compare it to Licq. You can choose to use pure QT or add KDE support.
> Finally Red Carpet: What is this? "Red Carpet, the update tool for ximian is
> a killerapp" It does not work with my distribution, it will trickily remove
> KDE (from what I have heard), it will modify my stystem. How is updating
> an "killer app" ? Check out SuSE You or Debian aptget. Same thing. Not very
> desktop specific
"trickily remove KDE", that problem is resolved long ago.
This was a bug in the dependency handling in some prerelase of Red Carpet.
I use Red Carpet regularly and KDE and all it's apps still works fine without any problems.
And Red Carpet is not tied to GNOME or even RPM.
You can port it to DEB or add a KDE channel (which is not likely to happen, since none of you KDE people trust Ximian for some reason).
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KDE vs GNOME
by Stuart Ballard on Thursday 06/Sep/2001, @10:02
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My personal experience: KDE is a MUCH better "newbie" desktop. GNOME is a marginally better "power user" desktop. As a "power user" myself, I use GNOME. But my wife, who lies somewhere in between (far, far above the level of most of today's "newbies", comfortable with a limited number of commandline commands "killall netscape" etc) wouldn't switch to Linux fulltime until I showed her KDE.
I really tried to like KDE: switched my home machine's default login for over a month. But I couldn't - the major factor for me was the general feel of bloatiness. Note that I'm NOT accusing KDE of *being* bloated, just of *feeling* bloated. Apps took a LONG time to start, and for some (psychological) reason KDE apps (like konqueror) feel like they should be "light" applications which you can start instantly. Konq is much faster to start than Mozilla, but I found Konq impossible to browse in because I always wanted to open new Konq windows (which is still slow), wheras with Moz it somehow feels more heavyweight and you don't have the inclination to stop-and-start it so much (I keep two windows open at all times and just reuse them). Other GNOME applications definitely feel faster to start - gnome-terminal over konsole, or Abi over KWord.
I feel that GNOME is good if you want the desktop environment to stay out of the way, which is what I do. If you want a complete and integrated feel and don't mind paying a slight performance cost, though, get KDE.
Either is the right decision :)
Stuart.
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Re: Miguel...
by Spark on Friday 07/Sep/2001, @10:10
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> E.g. Xmms is nice, but does not "fit" into the desktop one bit.
Err, why? Because of the skin? Well, some people prefer applications with "charakter" and a nice skin above apps that "all look the same". :)
All that matters is that dialogs, etc are Gtk, so it DOES fit in.
> Same for Mozilla.
Mozilla is for everyone!
If you want a Gnome browser, try Galeon. Fits perfectly. And is btw a better browser GUI than Konqueror. :) But currently I like KHTML better than Gecko. It's lighter and it has great rendering for *current* websites. Gecko is a beast and very capable when it comes to JavaScript and DOM. Most pages don't use that very much yet, so KHTML fits my needs very good. You just can't say that Konqueror is the better browser. It's a matter of taste and as I said, Galeon is definetly the better browser UI than Konqueror (could be because Konqueror is a "let's view and edit everything" application. ;)) Something like Galeon for KDE and KHTML would just rock. Well, maybe that's something I could try to code. :) It shouldn't be that hard to embed KHTML into a new app, right?
> I would miss the internet awareness of KDE.
The what? :)
I don't see a difference in "internet awareness" when using KDE or Gnome.
> Everything just looks the same, behaves the same and so on. Gnome is pretty, but not as streamlined.
That's a matter of taste, not an argument for one of each sides. :)
"Everything the same" can be nice, but "everything looks different" can be just as nice as well. Gtk/Gnome has the advantage, that Gtk and Gnome apps look the same, that's really bad with Qt and KDE (fortunatly this will change with Qt3 and KDE3 AFAIK :)).
> And I would miss stable true type font support with AA.
TrueType support is just as (un)stable as in KDE... and AA is a cosmetic detail, which isn't perfect in KDE either. I needed a long time since it didn't look awefull anymore... but I have to admit, once it's configured nicely, it's very good. :)
But really just a detail and Gtk will have this soon (it already has, just not "official").
> Abiword e.g. is nice, but not very gnome specific.
Who cares? All that matters is, that all Gtk apps look and behave the same.
There is no such thing as "the Gnome desktop". "Using Gnome" basically means, that your desktop mainly consists of Gtk apps and Gnome-Libs are installed. Most of the time you will also load the "panel" and if you like, you can use the Gnome session-managment.
> Finally Red Carpet: What is this? "Red Carpet, the update tool for ximian is a killerapp" It does not work with my distribution, it will trickily remove KDE (from what I have heard), it will modify my stystem. How is updating an "killer app" ? Check out SuSE You or Debian aptget. Same thing. Not very desktop specific.
(It does not remove KDE anymore!)
Yep, that's the point. It's distro specific. Red-Carpet is just gold on a Red Hat system, while it's absolutely useless on my Debian box. I figured that Gnome fits perfectly in a Red Hat system, while KDE runs great on SuSE and especially Debian (I'm currently writing this from KDE 2.2 on Debian 2.2 ;)).
I have Ximian GNOME installed on my other Linux partition with Red Hat (I use this for gaming and KDE for coding).
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