OCT
19
2003

Want KDE at COMDEX? Then Vote!

COMDEX is one of the largest computer conventions in the United States. O'Reilly & Associates, publishers and Open Source advocates, have stuck a deal with COMDEX to sponsor six open projects to appear among the commercial vendors and demonstrate their product. KDE is one of the 21 projects selected as possibilities, and there is an online poll currently running to select the six choices. You can vote once per day, so make it part of your daily routine!

Comments

I have'nt seen a "results" link.... So no possibility to see who's ahead so far...


By thomas at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

i think thats a good thing.. so on-one gets the funny idea to mess with it, like we once saw on looky where someone keept smashinsh Daniel's Liquid style.. (it was fixed later tho)

/kidcat


By kidcat at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

Where is Daniel anyway, he said he would relase a new version of PixiePlus with many improvements months ago and than suddenly he disappeared.

I hope he's just on a hiatus, we need him.


By Patrick O'Keefe at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

Who needs an unreliable diva?


By Anonymous at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Why is an account allowed to vote once per day?


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

I haven't been there, but I'm guessing it's to subject you to their online ads?


By ac at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

They do run ads for their own books (thus no inbound revenue), but they are static as far as I can tell... they run the same ad for several days in a row.


By Evan "JabberWok... at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

We definitely want KDE to be one of the winners in any case!


By ac at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

We sure do! That would be SUPER to give everyone the impression that Linux desktops are ugly as hell and sub-win 95 standard.

On the other hand, if any of you KDE uber zealots voted for Gnome, then fingers crossed that the PREMIER *nix desktop will be represented.


By Gil at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

I agree, I hope KDE will be presented too.

BTW: KDE can look very good.

Jsut check out how customized this guy's KDE 3.1 is: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7397

Really, with themes like Plastik and Keramik I much prefer KDE's look to GNOME.

But, your right, GNOME does have its better parts in look n feel, which I listed here: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58944

Anyway, you don't really want to know the facts, you just want to troll.


By Alex at Sun, 2003/10/19 - 5:00am

std disclaimer: please don't feed the troll

this guy probably surfed over from the gnome desktop news article about the same thing (http://gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=1405&mode=thread&order=0&thold=1)


By anon at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Did you notice that the GNOME desktop article *didn't* encourage people to vote repeatedly day after day.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

So? The poll says you can do this.


By anon at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Legalising the common KDE crowd's behaviour of vote stuffing any poll?

No, it's not something to encourage... I don't care if the site says it's ok.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Did you notice that GNOME posted the COMDEX article first?


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Who is complaing about *anyone* posting it? Good grief... you really are a bunch of thickos on this site aren't you?

It's the blatant call for script-kiddies and zealots to ballot stuff that is typically dishonest KDE behaviour.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

"Please vote for no more than three projects. In the interest of fairness you may only vote once per day. To keep track we ask that you please log in to your O'Reilly Network account."

This is O'Reilly policy, you Gnomedope. Go bitch to Tim. If you don't like the poll or OReilly, don't vote. It's that easy.

And what about the headstart that GNOME got by posting the poll first? THAT'S CHEATING! *eyeroll*


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

HEADSTART? Are you insane? As I've already pointed out, the gnome-desktop story did not ask people to repeatedly vote as many times as possible. You, apparently, seem unable to see this.

I don't care what O'Reilly policy is... it's the repeated calls for ballot-stuffing by dot.kde.org that's at issue -- it's been going on for years. KDE apparently, can't rely on normal people to vote, you must call upon your fearsome clans of drooling fanatics to swing things in your favour.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

> it's the repeated calls for ballot-stuffing by dot.kde.org that's at issue -- it's been going on for years.

Any example except of [the Linux Journal Reader's Choice 2003] where gnomedesktop.org's call had to be compensated?


By Anonymous at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Usually the pattern is that GNOME posts it first and then KDE posts it. GNOME usually gets the headstart/stuffing/trolls on most polls.


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

And the GNOME policy for years has been to send trolls over to dot.kde.org. It's because the GNOME project has been faltering and has nothing to show for itself but hoardes of paid trolls going around spreading anti-KDE FUD, lies, propaganda.

As I told you, if you don't care about O'Reilly, then don't support their poll and don't vote. O'Reilly asks you to vote fair by voting once a day. Yet your easy-bake-oven head can't seem to grasp this.


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

GNOME policy. ROFL. This little session is paying for my car tax. The fact is, every story on slashdot is overrun with KDE flamebots -- and the little demonstration earlier this year with KDE bluecurve was ample proof that KDE is staff and supported by moron flamers.

Yawn... let's repeat the O'Reilly thing again -- for the hard of thinking majority on dot.kde.org. Did you see GNOME desktop encouraging its users to vote early and often? No... it's something that happens on this fanatical stinkhole of a website a lot. Go get 'em boys... zealots ho!


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Uh-huh. Your presence here is proof of your lies. Go to GNOMEDESKTOP.ORG and count the number of KDE trolls there. Then come back here and count the number of GNOME trolls here. Hooray, GNOME won another trophy in the number of trolls they have...


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Another interesting thing I noticed. Your IP is in the same range as an open proxy abused by our famous "wiggle" troll last year. Perhaps a "welcome back" is due. I guess you noticed we lifted the bans. Time to reinstate it perhaps and make you the second ever ban in 6 months? Maybe, maybe not.

That's how fanatical we can get when we come across trolls and abusers of our resources... It's great isn't it. Go Konqi!

195.92.168.163-182: proxy used by wiggle troll 2002/08/17 (webcache*.cache.pol.co.uk)


By Navindra Umanee at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

I guess after seeing this [1], there shouldn't be any qualms left. :-)

[1] Admitting (the obvious that) you are a troll/abuser of KDE Dot News on GnomeDesktop.org and identifying yourself by IP.


By Navindra Umanee at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Hahaha. You haven't seen the Sun Java GNOME Desktop, have you? So much for the PREMIER UNIX desktop. It might be the PREMIER UGLY desktop tho. Hahaha, get it?


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Yeah, that theme is pretty damn ugly.


By Patrick O'Keefe at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Sheeeit.... that's almost KDE-level ugliness. If they work on it for a bit, they may even be able to match the depths of the KDE default theme (shudder).


By Franz at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

For *real* ugly check out Red Hat bluecurve! Man now that's butt ugliness from the Win95 days!


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Do you really think that what you are suggesting is fair?
Just listen to yourself "You can vote once per day, so make it part of your daily routine!", it's a shame for the Dot to approve and issue such article. And I feel like losing my time to read about such dirty tricks.
I didn't voted not because I don't see my favorite OSS project FreeBSD or that didn't want helping KDE to get there, but I didn't because this stupid article that demonstrates your morality and ethics and destroys the image KDE is building seven years now.
KDE will definitely be there because it deserves - you happy now??
But for future may be it is questionable will it be or not if trends of losing image and popularity because of bad public view like this article continue.

If there is admin here please delete or edit this shame from the dot.

And finally I'd like to say thanks to the hardworking free developers of KDE who made KHTML and Safari possible.


By Anton Velev at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Apparently every single voter needs a O'Reilly Network account so cheating will need some ugly work I hope nobody is willing to do for this purpose (ie. I wouldn't really worry about that).


By Datschge at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Anton,
If you had read the article, the author of the vote/poll basically recommends voting once a day, but no more. So no, this is not bad to encourage that ppl vote once a day. Nobody encourages others to vote more that what was requested. Personaly,I do not see how this destroy's the KDE image? In what way was it wrong to obey the rules of the road for this vote?
As to deserving to be there, that is probably not true. More often than not, deserving has nothing to do with anything. If so, then BSD would have been used more years ago. Apple would have replaced MS on the desktop years ago, and Linux would now be replacing both on the desktop. MS should have taught all that you do not get what you buy (or deserve).


By a.c. at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

"Personaly,I do not see how this destroy's the KDE image?"

Posting such material on the #1 KDE public media (the Dot) is destroying the image (since it engourages the unfairplay). I checked already yesterday what does gnome says about it and they also encourage people to vote but does not publicly say that people should post multiple votes.


By Anton Velev at Tue, 2003/10/21 - 5:00am

It's not unfair play! Its the rules of the poll! If they didn't want people to vote more than once, they wouldn't let them! The rules are probably structured like that to make sure that a small but dedicated fan base can still have an impact.


By Rayiner Hashem at Thu, 2003/10/23 - 5:00am

> If there is admin here please delete or edit this shame from the dot.

Hmm.. it's been posted a lot of other places as well. I count gnomedesktop.org, dot.kde.org, the OOo mailing lists so far, perhaps more.


By anon at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

And gnomedesktop.org posted it first. Who wants to see there only Evolution, Gaim, Gimp, GNOME, GnuCash and OpenOffice.org?


By Anonymous at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

As the author of that phrase, I wrote it because the creator of the poll says you can vote once per day, so I'd imagine he's looking to factor that into the results of the poll. Since he's tracking each vote by a user account, it's obviously intentional that he is letting people vote once a day.

My impression is that they are looking for the projects with the strongest base of users. "Strong" base of users can be a small group of devoted people advocating their project or a large group of people that have mild feelings. Remember - this is about advocacy, and they have already chosen 21 projects that they feel could be there. By putting it to an online vote, they are even making the selection as open as possible - turning it over to the Open Source and Free Software community as best they can.


By Evan "JabberWok... at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

"You can vote once per day, so make it part of your daily routine!"
again - this sounds like a bad joke on the KDE's #1 public media which purpose is to help building the good image.
If you really wanted to suggest such cheat (or call it as you wish) you could add it as anonymous reader after you posted the article but it's really bad to feed such stuff on this board. After all don't forget that this is not the only site that publishes your material, it's also feeded through RSS to many other sites and news tickers as well.
Talking about advocacy, this post will really play it's good role for helping KDE to get there but as basic trend of curving the public image of kde in this direction will really play as bad advocacy for a longer term.


By Anton Velev at Tue, 2003/10/21 - 5:00am

:: If you really wanted to suggest such cheat (or call it as you wish) you could add it as anonymous reader

Anton Velev: I want you to reply to this one question: Why is it bad when the sponsors of the poll suggest that people vote that way?

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Tue, 2003/10/21 - 5:00am

> KDE will definitely be there because it deserves - you happy now??

You made a donation enabling KDE to have a booth there without O'Reilly's help?


By Anonymous at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Man you are such an idiot and liar. Go back to GNOME and vote for all the unfair GNOME projects in the poll when there is only one KDE option to choose from then.

Just in case you haven't understood: YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG. This is not cheating. This is HOW THE POLL IS SUPPOSED TO BE.


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

*Go back to GNOME and vote for all the unfair GNOME projects in the poll when there is only one KDE option to choose from then.

They were obviously shortlisted in terms of quality. The simple fact is, most KDE apps are eye-candy plus alpha-level features... with a version 2.1 label slapped on to make it look "mature".


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Oh right. This is why the butt-ugly XMMS filedialog is so /mature/ and has such a /usable/ non-useless-eyecandy GUI. *laugh* Wait, mature must also explain why Evolution is such a bloated and crashy pig? And also why the Gimp has such a stupid unusable GUI? How about the *wonderful* integration of GNOME Office (TM)? Man what a joke.


By ac at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

XMMS isn't a GNOME project -- and it is currently being ported (independantly) to GTK2.

Evolution crashy? Perhaps you have faulty RAM, or you messed up when you compiled it. I've been using Ximian builds of evolution since it was alpha (when it crashed a lot, ooh, 2.5 years ago I think), since then it hasn't crashed once... not once, and unlike you and the loudmouthed KDE zealots, I use my mail client in all kinds of different environments, not just simple POP3 to my ISP to pick up the electric-letters from my fellow l33t d00ds.

GNOME office? Gnumeric is, bar none, the best spreadsheet on Unix. Let me know when Kspread can do more than add up a shopping list.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

> Gnumeric is, bar none, the best spreadsheet on Unix.

Crap! (had to say this!) You have never really tried to use it, do you? And if you've been using it, than for no more than adding up a shopping list. The truth is, that it's just not able to handle files larger than 100 cols x 1000 rows (even with 512mb of ram). OO.calc is crap too, but it's lightyears better than Gnumeric! Gnumeric and Kspread are both neither mature apps nor ready for real-world usage. Do'nt claim something else... it's just not true.


By thomas at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

Hey, the shopping list crack was mine. It seems KDE copying is not just confined to the software world. As for Gnumeric, I've been using it for analysing experimental data (along with a few other packages) for 6 months now. Best spreadsheet I've ever used -- and I've tried most. It even comes recommended for the quality of its numerical accuracy.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

> analysing experimental data

funny, that's what I tried to use gnumeric (v 1.2) for... so _who_ is copying here?.. Whatever...
"recommended for the quality of its numerical accuracy" plz read that again and let's both have a good laugh... You're sure you know what you're talking about? Wake up, man! you're free to use OpenOffice. It's there.. it's usable, though a bit slow sometimes (OOs slowness brought me to the stupid idea of giving Gnumeric a try). OO may be slow, but at least you get your work done...


By thomas at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

*funny, that's what I tried to use gnumeric (v 1.2) for... so _who_ is copying here?

And I'm supposed to know that how, exactly? I would have to know it to copy it... fool.

As for the numerical accuracy -- apparently, you don't understand even the basics of this. Many spreadsheets have numerical routines of shockingly bad quality outside of the level required for simple accounting (Excel is notorious for this, as a simple google will show you). Gnumeric has been praised and recommended for this. You sound like a 15 year old who thinks if you put in 2+2 and get out 4, it means that your spreadsheet is T0P KWALITEE.

As for the size issue: Gnueric supprots enormous sheets with ease. The standard build is compiled with options to limit it to the size allowed by Excel, for compatiblity reasons.

You, along with a great many KDE loons, seem to compile GNOME software yourself and don't have the first idea how to do it properly -- possibly this is deliberate, or you simply lie about your experiences. May I suggest making the effort to get a packaged version, and save yourself some grief.


By anon2 at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

And I'm supposed to know that how, exactly? I would have to know it to copy it... fool

If you don't get that sentence, simply don't feel in need to answer to it...

> Excel is notorious for this

... Yeah... Excel _was_ notorious for this. btw. Excel e.g. is a mature app, easy to use, eats large chunks of data and feels responsive even with very large files. Neither Gnumeric nor Kspread nor even OO.calc live up to the level of excel...
And you're right I did not know that special compatibility-option for Gnumeric. But that's not changing anything in my opinion, that Gnumeric is overrated by you and the guy who told you to use Gnumeric for scientific work...


By thomas at Mon, 2003/10/20 - 5:00am

> And you're right I did not know that special compatibility-option for Gnumeric. But that's not changing anything in my opinion, that Gnumeric is overrated by you and the guy who told you to use Gnumeric for scientific work...

Uh, well, if the guy worked with it half a year in production environment i.e. "at work" while you haven't passed the hurdle of compiling it right, well, who's better in the situation to make a reasonable point about Gnumeric's quality and accuracy?
And yeah, you may be right Excel *is* a mature app, but it's worstcoded, bloated + speedhacked. And it's far to expensive anyways, just because they have bound mankind to the Office formats in time.
It's a simple thing, OSS development seems to me a bit faster at the moment then M$ dev, properly because the 5000 something coding guys @ M$ there constantly stumble over all that old ugly code.. So it'll all just outdevelop M$. They are struggling with Longhorn now (didn't get that beta with that neat 3D stuff in there ready in time to dev.conf., HAHA) and I don't want to ever.
And the good thing really is to know, ultimately, M$ cannot win.
regards


By Marcel Partap at Tue, 2003/10/21 - 5:00am

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