OCT
2
2000

VisKProg programming language

VisKProg is a visual KDE programming language
suitable for beginning programmers.
It comes with a complete IDE (including a form editor and a window editor) and generates C++ code, so no interpreter is needed to compile/run the programs. Though VisKProg's IDE is still based on KDE 1.x, we want to release a stable v0.2 in the next weeks for KDE 2.0. We are looking for testers to write programs and report bugs and for
developers to finish the IDE and port it to KDE 2.0 (please! ;-)).

Comments

OK, I like VisKProg, but not is better contribute with KDevelop and make the code for implement QTDesigner and power it more????????????


By Manuel Román at Mon, 2000/10/02 - 5:00am

KDevelop is a great IDE, and there is (theoretically) the possibility to implement just another project template in KDevelop;
though it doesn't fit our needs:
a) KDevelop is very powerful but therefore also
very complex. A beginner language doesn't need
dozens of options, it should be as SIMPLE as possible with only as many menu entries as really needed. KDevelop on the other hand is
designed to give as much control as possible about whatever.
b) KDevelop's UI focusses on the source code, and only allows to add some dialogs in a graphical editor as an "extra feature". This is fine with a language like C++, meanwhile it's not a good solution for someone who mainly wants to design a window and then (as a second step) add some source code instructions. And it seems to me that this is, how programming beginners behave: they first want to do what they want to see (the UI).
BTW, I don't like KDevelop's form designer very much.
With the Qt designer it's different: it's new, and now I don't see any reason why we should make a rewrite of it for VisKProg, when finishing our own "kwinedit" will probably take less time. Still, I agree with you that the people at KDevelop should integrate it.
c) A beginner language like VisKProg needs much more integration between "the language" and "the IDE". Ask people who have just started to write their first VB programs under Windoze: most of them doesn't know the difference between the language and the IDE, and IMHO there is no need
for a visual programming language to force their users to learn the "pure" language (without IDE) first. The language may even need the IDE, and the IDE should work hand in hand with the language (syntax checking in the editor, code completion, and much more). KDevelop is not designed to do most of these things, and even if we would implement it, it would mainly be a waste of time, as the other languages (C/C++) won't probably need it in such an advanced form and implementing a feature "generally" (so it should work for EVERY langauge used with KDevelop) takes much more time then doing the same thing for VK only.

Regards,
Chris (VisKProg team)


By chris at Mon, 2000/10/02 - 5:00am

Yes, I agree with him.
And why yet another RAD tool while we have QT Designer?
And why not merge QT Designer's code with KDevelop?

I have yet to see a RAD tool for Linux as powerful as Delphi...


By Anonymous at Mon, 2000/10/02 - 5:00am

Hmm... 'Kylix' from Borland would fit to your
needs, I think.


By thomas at Mon, 2000/10/02 - 5:00am

>And why yet another RAD tool while we have QT Designer?
Well, competition even helps open source projects by offering a choice ;-) BTW, our project is older then the Qt designer, though the Qt designer has been developed much more rapidly by people who are paid for this job.

> And why yet another RAD tool while we have QT Designer?
Fine, why not... but ask the KDevelop programmers to do so please ;-)

> I have yet to see a RAD tool for Linux as powerful as Delphi...
Well, if you ask me, you disagree with yourself there: if you only want to have KDevelop, you will never get a RAD like Delphi, KDevelop is completely different from such projects.
Kylix may fit your needs, but it will be closed source/commercial. If you want such projects as freeware, you'll have to allow projects like ours to do their work ;-)


By chris at Mon, 2000/10/02 - 5:00am

But why the rename from "Visual K" to VisKProg? :)


By ac at Mon, 2000/10/02 - 5:00am

Good question ;-) Well, it was the time, when M$ just had started to forbid some sites to use "where do you want to go tomorrow?", and when some other projects also changed their names to avoid (possible) future copyright problems.
Then, we've found out that nearly every search engine finds thousands of matches when you enter something like "Visual"+"K" ... so we looked for a more individual name, that's all. BTW, "VisKProg" stands for "Visual K(DE) programming language" ;-)


By chris at Tue, 2000/10/03 - 5:00am

Looks pretty cool actually, and should be very interesting to see where this goes.


By Ashleigh Gordon at Tue, 2000/10/03 - 5:00am

I'm happy to see al these great IDE and RAD tools.
The only problem is they are all made for KDE while I prefer Gnome.
Glade is very good but gIDE is useless :-(


By Anonymous at Tue, 2000/10/03 - 5:00am

Dear GNOME fan,

VisKProg is designed not to depend on a special environment; the actual version only supports KDE, but we just need a rewrite of the "libs" and a new project template, not only to allow GNOME projects but even to let the _same_ VisKProg programs compile with both KDE and GNOME, on both fitting all standards. Only the
large parts of the IDE will remain KDE only (as long as nobody rewrites them).
If you want to help us, you can start to implement GNOME support immediately, otherwise it will still take some months...
If you want to participate in the discussion about VisKProg support for other environments,
please subscribe to our mailing list (more information at www.viskprog.org).
For instant, we're not sure yet whether to choose "real" GNOME or only wxWindows/Gtk for the Gtk support - we need your opinions!

Regards,
Chris


By chris at Tue, 2000/10/03 - 5:00am

I would love to help but I am already working on my own project and I don't have any QT/C++ programming experience.

And does VisKProg supports GTK+?


By Anonymous at Wed, 2000/10/04 - 5:00am

The IDE will be for KDE only, but the generated projects can be in what language and for what toolkit you like. The translators are designed to generate different output, though a Gtk/GNOME
project template is not implemented yet.
Your e-mail address, please! IMHO, this forum isn't a good place for discussion on such specific details ;-)


By chris at Wed, 2000/10/04 - 5:00am