JUN
24
2008

KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Ready For Testing

Another milestone on the road towards KDE 4.1 has been packaged and put online for testing. The release notes highlight some features in Dolphin and Gwenview, as well as additional information on where to get the release, make sure you also check your distributor's websites as well. While there are some bugs left, the release already works quite solidly on most people's machines. Performance problems on NVidia chips remain, but we are confident that those will be solved by the teams over at NVidia in one of the next releases of their graphics driver. In KDE 4.1, there is also some preliminary Mac and Windows support coming up. Several apps can be tried by a wider audience on those proprietary platforms this summer already. On the side of Free operating systems, support for OpenSolaris is coming along nicely, but is not free of bugs yet.

As every Beta, we release this software to gain feedback and to provide a preview of our upcoming technology. When encountering problems during testing, please help us by reporting bugs through KDE's Bugzilla so developers are aware of them and can make the necessary changes. When trying this release you will encounter a number of new things, most of the new features are listed on Techbase, make sure to check out that list and give the next KDE a whirl.

Comments

beta1 is really good, let's hope this time nixternal can place the new packages for kubuntu faster than first 4.1 beta that needed a lot of changes in packages from 4.0 :)


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Fix: beta1 is good, beta2 should be even better ;)


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

no need to wait, beta2 was here since 3 days already ( before the official release) http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/User:Apachelogger/Project_Neon/KDE

friendly


By mimoune djouallah at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

hello,
you can also try the Neon packages for Kubuntu
(check the Harald Sitter blog at http://apachelog.blogspot.com/2008/06/project-neon-kde-nightly-builds.html)

The downside is they don't include debug symbols for now but they work very well and install cleanly :)


By DanaKil at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Wow thanks (to both that indicated neon).

I tought neon was for amarok nightlies only :D


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

That's the word, Nice!
Best KDE4 beta so far, I'm really enjoying today fooling around with KDE Four Live.
This is the FIRST KDE4 where I have a feeling of actually knowing where plasma is going, and I like it!

I really hope some devs or nice people will find the time to update the plasma website and write some up-to-date words about plasma. That should really reduce user frustration and confusion.

It's sad to see many destructive threads on loads of webpages right now. (e.g. OMG NO DESKTOP ICONS or OMG THE PEANUT SUCKS. It's all not true)

I can't understand it, KDE4 is at an early stage right now. Why so impatient? Some people (ok, thats mostly not here on the dot) behave like spoiled kids on christmas this year.

Non-KDE-Devs: Please let the devs finish their step and see where they'll be standing THEN. It's hard to critisize in an useful way when being unable to see the whole picture.

KDE-Devs: Keep it up! In almost every aspect, KDE 4 rocks already, and I can't wait to see how hard it rocks tomorrow.


By fhd at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

It appears most of the release highlights are application based, not platform like KDE should be.

Why can't they release new versions of Dolphin and Gwenview regardless the release cycle of KDE itself? Somehow it seems that the KDE apps are more intergrated in kde than Windows Media Player was in Windows when EU fined them.


By kanttu at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

You could say that KDE basic is kdelibs + kdebase, which would only give you Konqueror and Dolphin as the few basic apps.
Gwenview is clearly part of kdegraphics, which consists of a bunch of helpful apps dealing with viewing/editing graphic files. It's not "build into" kdelibs nor kdebase (which would be nonsense anyway in the *nix way of thinking).

Of course it's possible to only update kdegraphics without updating kdelibs/kdebase (at least with minor version numbers like 3.5.8 -> 3.5.9 or later on e.g. 4.1.0 > 4.1.1 this is not a problem at all)


By thomas at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

That's often not possible as applications might depend on newer features in the libraries. kdelibs being binary compatible means that you can run older applications (say gwenview from 4.0) with newer kdelibs. So in case you want to update kdelibs, you don't necessarily have to update all your apps as well -- but not the other way round.


By Sebastian Kügler at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

I have to correct myself here. For bugfix updates, we usually don't add any feature, so in most cases, it's possible to update e.g. gwenview without newer kdelibs. The general BIC rule (older apps run on newer libs) is still correct though. Not necessarily the other way round, but often the case for x.y.z releases. Sorry for the confusion.


By Sebastian Kügler at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

"It appears most of the release highlights are application based, not platform like KDE should be."

Um, those applications are part of the platform...

"Why can't they release new versions of Dolphin and Gwenview regardless the release cycle of KDE itself?"

Those apps are part of the whole we call "KDE". If they start doing individual releases, then there won't be a release of "KDE" anymore, just several seprate releases of different parts of KDE.

"Somehow it seems that the KDE apps are more intergrated in kde than Windows Media Player was in Windows when EU fined them."

Are you surprised that KDE-apps that ship as part of KDE are integrated with the desktop? Yes, I can see why that is such a surprise.

And what does Media Player have to do with KDE? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Utterly, 100% nothing. I fail to see why you bring up Media Player to this discussiion.


By Janne at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

The metaphor about WMP was that the developing KDE and its applications is so maid together so eventually they would merge together.

My concern was that the release cycle of KDE limits the release cycle of KDE apps like Dolphin and Gwenview since they are bound to release their stuff when KDE is shipping new major release.

As far as I know, minor releases 4.1.x are for bug fixes, so to get new features for dolphin on gwenview you have to wait for 4.2 or use the svn head losing all the stability of the current stable version.

If you're an independent developer you could release new version for your application like every week using the current stable platform.

Hope you got my point :)


By kanttu at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

"The metaphor about WMP was that the developing KDE and its applications is so maid together so eventually they would merge together."

WMP and Windows are not merged either. And there's nothing wrong with integration (unless it's done for monopolistic purposes, like what MS did with WMP and IE). It makes the system cohesive and it makes sure that the apps take advantage of the advanced features the desktop has to offer.

"My concern was that the release cycle of KDE limits the release cycle of KDE apps like Dolphin and Gwenview since they are bound to release their stuff when KDE is shipping new major release."

Um, that's the way it has been since the beginning of KDE... That's kinda the point of desktop-environment. A desktop with apps and underlying systems that forms a cohesive whole.

"As far as I know, minor releases 4.1.x are for bug fixes, so to get new features for dolphin on gwenview you have to wait for 4.2 or use the svn head losing all the stability of the current stable version."

And if those apps were released separately, you might still have to wait for 6 months before you would get a new feature-release. So what would you gain, exactly? Do you want to have feature-releases once a month or something? When would you have the time for bugfixes, translations, artwork, documentation?

"Hope you got my point :)"

I do get your point, I just think that it's wrong and misguided.


By Janne at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

"If you're an independent developer you could release new version for your application like every week using the current stable platform."

And nobody forbids you, but being in KDE gives you the pleasure of forgeting about releasing, dealing with translators, packaging translations, etc. You just code and then someone does the "boring" release tasks.


By Albert Astals Cid at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Some distros do release each app as a seperate package, and then bundle them in meta-packages. So yes, KDE is modular.


By T. J. Brumfield at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Yes, KDE apps are individual apps. The thing is, have you ever installed Xorg or GNOME from source? If so, you would understand the wisdom of putting the individual things in fairly large packages.


By JRT at Tue, 2008/07/01 - 5:00am

And I must say... I'm confident now, that world dominance is only a small step further... no... really, I'm very impressed! This is clearly not only an evolutionary step compared to the 3.5 series, but really some kind of revolution. It's such a joy to see KDE 4.1 shaping up in the last couple of weeks. Guys, you must be really proud of your baby.. you know you've created something awesome... do you?
(I'm really looking forward to KOffice now..., but so far it has only been crashing on me, really difficult to test atm...)


By thomas at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Hi!!

Well done. Beta 1 is already great... I am downloading the new Bata2 and looking forward to enjoy the new space feeling!

Have a nice day

Nicola


By Nicola at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Dope


By winter at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Is that a + or a -.


By Riddle at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Dope = A+


By Winter at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

(takes mental note to remember that)


By Riddle at Thu, 2008/06/26 - 5:00am

For first time (on my openSUSE 10.3 -> 11.0 system) it looks like KDE 4.x is working :) except all I get is a white screen and KMix. I remember someone posting a way to cure the white screen thingy but I can't find it.

May I ask for some help?


By Gerry at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

As a last resort you could try deleting your .kde4 .kde folders to see if this helps (of course then you would lose settings, history etc..).


By bill at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

That did it, thank you.

Am I dreaming or is everything faster?


By Gerry at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

To anyone else thinking of giving this advice, don't. The correct advice is "Move your .kde or .kde4 folder to .kde-nogood and see if it works". Otherwise you run the risk of the user deleting all their downloaded mail, contacts, calendars, torrents and other valuable stuff.


By Will Stephenson at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Erm, I'm pretty sure I did warn about that.

Strikes me that the fact any actual data that is valuable to you is stored in a hidden folder is far from optimal anyway, no doubt in the future there will be a proper central repository of user info which holds useful stuff like firefox bookmarks etc in a clearly marked not-easily-deletable-or-loseable location. Perhaps Nepomuk will help here, in that way I could drag my personal settings folder to my usb thumbdrive and use on my Mac or XP desktop at work.


By opensuse user at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

As the recipient of the original advice, I think your advice is correct but excessive. I'm ignorant (as in unaware of all the ins and outs) not reckless (stupid). After all, knowing what a .file is and how to find it was a prerequisite to understanding the advice.

I for one read "delete" as "make a copy first" (Moreover, in openSUSE, if you delete something it ends up in trash, so you do get a second chance).

Deleting .kde4 was just what I needed to do, in that KDE4 is now working and wasn't before. I had never successfully used KDE4 (indeed I've posted a few bug reports) so my .kde4 folder was empty, all that stuff is in my .kde folder

So I'm still happy and think you were slightly harsh on the donor :)


By Gerry at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Reading http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154535 I got the impression that KDE Desktop experience is defined by a single person. Please tell me that I got it wrong.


By testerus at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

yeah he is our guru, our president, and our visionary, we trust him, we love him, he is sent by God to bring some love and beauty to linux desktop ;)


By anon at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

So, who is this god guy anyway?


By panzi at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

As far as I can see, the kidney in the top-right corner can't be removed completely because plasma is not only designed for your common desktop, but the future is to target different devices as well, some of them won't have a right-click available. So the task was to design it in a way that is as unobtrusive as possible and still making it usable for e.g. touch-screens. From my pov this has been nicely solved, as it just greys out when not used. I don't even notice it anymore. If you hover the mouse over it, it'll fade in with color (no animation), which is as undisturbing as possible. Only if you click it, it'll animate and show you some possible actions. If it stays the way it is atm, I'm fine with it.


By thomas at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

You got it wrong. There are quite a few people writing the defining code.

And if Plasma sucks for you, just write a replacement. And much fun with those for whom your approach will suck. ;)

You could even start with a port of KDesktop and Kicker, if you liked it that much. Noone will stop you. But if many will encourage you, I wonder. Because if Plasma is done (someday) you should be able to configure a Plasma setup which resembles the KDE 3 desktop closely. Yes, includes waiting for now.


By Hans Chen at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Curse that Peter Noone


By jason at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

Thanks for your arguments. You have convinced me.


By Hans Chen at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

Would it be better if the "KDE desktop experience" is designed by a committee?


By Janne at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

It is ;-)


By Jos Poortvliet at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

Several of the issues raised in that thread have IIRC been solved without simply removing the cashew. Quickly looking at that thread I saw at least 2 Plasma developers post in it so it isn't defined by a single person either. Being defined by a single person isn't really bad either, lots of projects benefit from having a central leader that decides what gets in and what doesn't (look at the Linux Kernel and how well its done).

IIRC, it was also mentioned that someone could write an alternative Desktop containment that didn't include the cashew.


By Kitsune at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

"Being defined by a single person isn't really bad either, lots of projects benefit from having a central leader that decides what gets in and what doesn't (look at the Linux Kernel and how well its done)."

That's true if you have the right person.


By Jeff Strehlow at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

"That's true if you have the right person."

Are you hinting that Aaron is the wrong person for the task? And who exactly are you to decide that?


By Janne at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

I didn't say that. I'm just saying that having a leader doesn't always work out well.


By Jeff Strehlow at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning whether some leading person or party is the right one for the respective task.
We had political systems where this wasn't really allowed, and I'm glad we are over it.

There is no need for him to justify for this.

Nobody has chosen Aaron to be the KDE desktop hacker leader, he happened to become it when he took over maintainance of kicker.
So basically, code decided. But I have the impression it has become somewhat more than that...

Alex


By Alex at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

but, like Linus uses to call it, it can and will not become more than 'benevolent dictatorship' - if most KDE dev's disagree with him, he has to follow. Besides, I know he wouldn't want it any other way.


By Jos Poortvliet at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

Plasma is primarily led by one person. However, Plasma is not the entire KDE experience.


By Riddle at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

I've read the thread and it was quite disturbing to me also. It seems Aaron has his own idea how he wants things to be and doesn't listen to the users. I don't buy his argument that the people that were arguing against him don't know what's going on and are unqualified to comment.


By Jeff Strehlow at Tue, 2008/06/24 - 5:00am

> and doesn't listen to the users.

disagreeing with a self-selected small group of users on one issue does not equal "doesn't listen to the users". the numerous other times i have done just that, publicly and privately, say otherwise.

> I don't buy his argument that the people that were arguing against
> him don't know what's going on and are unqualified to comment.

and yet .. .they don't. they aren't familiar with the code (as evidenced by the lack of understanding of the role of Containments) nor the design (ditto). that's my assertion. you can support yours with similar fact if you'd like.


By Aaron Seigo at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

I kind of like the whole Software Engineering thing that KDE is doing at the moment. (Yes I am a "Software Engineer").

I think a lot of people just don't understand how brilliant the idea of desktop containments is. You can do everything you could do before, you can just do so much more now. It's elegant, simple, and really quite clever (though admittedly I haven't actually played with it - it's something that can be ruined through bad user interface issues)


By matthew at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

You don't need to understand the code to make judgments on the user interface. Users can decide for themselves whether they like the way something in the user interface works. A small group of users brought the cashew issue up but there aren't many people that post on boards such as those. Surely there must be many more people that would like to have an easy way to disable it.

I guess all users that post on boards with opinions are "self-selected users" including the ones that have nothing to say but praise since they made the decision themselves to post. I don't think that being a "self-selected" user makes ones opinion any less valid.


By Jeff Strehlow at Wed, 2008/06/25 - 5:00am

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