KC KDE #26 Is Out

Tuesday, 27 November 2001 | Numanee

This week, Aaron J. Seigo, Juergen Appel and Rob Kaper present the jam-packed Kernel Cousin KDE #26. Read about how Linux father, Linus Torvalds, is also a model KDE user and bug reporter, LISa the new Lan Browsing Wizard, Kinkatta plugins, the Boson real-time strategy game, a KDE Script Interface, news of a kdeedu module, the KDE3 beta1 week delay, and much more. Thanks, guys!

Comments:

DCOP scripting dangerous? - Fresh, so fresh - 2001-11-27

Remember, system-wide scripting is what got MS into the security nightmare it is today. What is to prevent from someone writing a ILOVEYOU for KMail and DCOP? Please tell me it is not possible.

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - Simon - 2001-11-27

Done with a bit of care, it's not possible. The core problems with MS and Outlook are that: * Outlook uses the HTML viewing component from IE. This opens up a huge amount of functionality that doesn't belong in a mail client. Javascipt, client side VBScript, ActiveX etc. The security settings are meant to make this safe, but people have been finding ways (read: bugs) around the security model since day 0. * Outlook makes running dangerous content too easy. This situation is improved somewhat in the later version of Outlook, but old version will happily let users run .reg (registry settings modifications), .exe (programs), .wsh (scripts) files straight from inside the browser. 98% of people don't even know what they are doing or what these files types are. The fundamental problem that MS and basically every OS producer faces these days is that it's extremely easy for untrusted content and code to enter a system. Examples: * Someone sends you a Word doc with macros. * Someone sends you a self extracting Zip file. * You download an RPM from somewhere. * Download and install an playable demo of "Overkill 3 Pro" from the net. * Even extracting a normal zip archive can be dangerous. It's almost impossible to trust anything that comes in from outside. You have the choice of being safe and not even trying to use the content/code, or using it and being 100% exposed. Pity there is not way of tagging a file on the filesystem level (for example) as being untrusted and requiring extra care. (i.e. sandboxes, running in a jail environment etc). -- Simon http://www.simonzone.com/software/guarddog/

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - kosh - 2001-11-27

Actually I think it would be a good idea that if the email client ebmedded the web browser it treated it just like it was a webpage as far as security is conerned. The problem with outlook is that IE has more privs when viewing under outlook then it does when viewing a webpage. That would make looking at an email no more potentially dangerous then browsing the web. If the web browser has security problems browsing the web then they need to be fixed at least konqueror seems to be doing very nicely in that department. I would treat emails as completely untrested and run them in that way. Attachements would open the same way that konqueror opens a file off the web with the exact same permission set. Also items should be identified with file if possible to determine the right application to open them in based on the content type and only non executable content should be able to open by default. Everything that is executable should have to go through a user acknoledgement. So an mp3, ogg, wav, jpg, mpeg etc would get through just fine but a binary application, shell script etc would not. That doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do and it would be at least as safe as it is now. It would also be nice if all apps in kde had a concept of tainted data so that anything the system pulls in from outside the filesystem is automatically "tainted" and treated as suspect by the various programs. So if you open a jpeg from your home directory it can be safe but if you open a jpeg off the web it would be set as tainted by default and checked to see if it actually was a jpeg and openeded only with a jpeg opener program and any failure would put a small error link on the page where the image should have been. This would keep people from makeing something an executable binary and calling .jpg just on the offchance a jpeg program would see it and actually run it instead of viewing it. The same would apply to any macros that may get put in kword docs later. So by default any tainted document opened would disable all of those kinds of features and open the document read only and not allow it to pull information from anywhere else. You would then be told what else the document wanted to do and you could clear it for those actions wanted.

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-27

Actually the script engines can all run in a sandbox enviroment if the developer chooses. This is the way the javascript script engine will work afaik, and I am looking at doing python this way too. The coolest thing about the script engine is that nothing is done automaticly. The user still has to install and run the script. This is very secure because one has to be very on the ball to install two files to $KDEDIR/share/apps/<thecorrectapplication>/scripts/ just for the script to become available to the application. As I have some more userland examples finished I will have some very verbose documentation as to how developers can use this in their applications. As an example for now look at: http://geiseri.kdedevelopers.net/katescript1.png http://geiseri.kdedevelopers.net/katescript2.png http://geiseri.kdedevelopers.net/katescript3.png This is a very simple example, but it is proof of life... Cheers -ian reinhart geiser

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - Rob - 2001-11-27

Basically, we need a capability based operating system - see http://www.eros-os.org

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2001-11-27

:: Pity there is not way of tagging a file on the filesystem level (for example) as being untrusted and requiring extra care. (i.e. sandboxes, running in a jail environment etc). There is... simply create a user "kdeuntrusted" or "publicuser" or "outsideuser", and make all executable files brought in from outside have their suid bit and ownership set to that. Or just use the common "nobody" (I was thinking a kdespecific user, but it should probably be a shadow user to each KDE user, so you can set permissions). Now that will create an *enormous* headache for UI, permissions management, and help text. Plus, you're looking at breaking system dependencies if you go too far (for instance, BSD has jail, Linux has the upcoming fine grained kernel permissions, etc. - which are useful, but not portable). But it *can* be done. KDE 4.0, maybe? I rememeber when people were talking about antialiasing being "in KDE 3.0 maybe?". :) -- Evan

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - someone - 2001-11-27

Where do you see the difference between calling 'mail -s ILOVEYOU some@addre.ss' and 'dcop kmail KMailIface sendMail "some@addre.ss" "" "" "ILOVEYOU"' if it would exist?

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-27

Okay step 1: Stop Step 2: Decide, am I ignorant or just a troll. Step 3: If you are ignorant please read below: No, it is just as hard to write a script virus with dcop as it is with normal shell. This is an over debated topic, and on the off chance you can use a search engine, you will see the list/dot/usenet and slashdot archives all talk about this in painful detail. If you are even inclined you could even read about what DCOP scripting is. You would think that after about 20 years of shell scripting being arround, if there was a way to make a virus spread using it, they would have found one? Please, next time you try to spread FUD do so on some topic that you have a chance at supporting your fearmongering. Cheers -ian reinhart geiser

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - Luke Chatburn - 2001-11-28

Well, from what I have seen, there are two forms of security. One is to just build something and then try and patch it when it goes wrong, the second is to develop logically and make sure that if something is wrong at a certain stage, it never gets through to another stage, so you don't need to patch it there. The DCOP scripting engine seems to be taking the right, mature and well-considered option. Ian, this looks really exciting stuff, giving us some real power to scripting, which could be so valuable in a desktop environment, but Windows has managed to make so insecure that we can't even use it for legitimate means. Hell, we can't be sure that it will actually do what it is supposed to, to be honest. Implementing basic scripts can induce crashes under Windows very easily. It's looking really good, and I can't wait to get my hands on this stuff and have a good play around. Thanks mate, you're doing a really great job. -Luke Chatburn

Re: DCOP scripting dangerous? - M - 2001-11-28

Linux virises can be a reality but they are far from what MS viruses ar because of the security implementations on linux and it archtecture itself. No.1: There can be linux viruses!. No.2: By the nature of linux (thus KDE) any virus damage is very limmited, probably to only the user directory. No.3: Virus writters not only select MS because they products are the less secure in the market, they want to get the most people as well, so is very unlikely that any virus writter will spend time writing a virus that will do almost no damage to the system and that will be much less spreaded compared to a MS virus.

KDE 3 build problems - Carg - 2001-11-27

So, it seems many people are reporting build problems related to KDE from HEAD. I too, have problems: c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../.. -I../../../arts/mcop -I../../../arts/qtmcop -I../../../arts/kde -I../../../arts/soundserver -I../../../arts/flow -I../../../dcop -I../../../libltdl -I../../../kdecore -I../../../kdeui -I../../../kssl -I/usr/lib/qt3/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/opt/kde3//include -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -D_REENTRANT -DNDEBUG -O2 -fno-exceptions -fno-check-new -ftemplate-depth-99 -DQT_NO_TRANSLATION -DQT_CLEAN_NAMESPACE -DQT_NO_ASCII_CAST -DQT_NO_COMPAT -Wp,-MD,.deps/kmcop_la.all_cpp.pp -c kmcop_la.all_cpp.cpp -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/kmcop_la.all_cpp.o In file included from kmcop_la.all_cpp.cpp:3: mcopdcopobject.cpp: In method `class Arts::Buffer * MCOPDCOPObject::callFunction(MCOPEntryInfo *, QCString, const QByteArray &)': ../../../arts/mcop/object.h:91: `long int Arts::Object_base::_getObjectID() const' is protected mcopdcopobject.cpp:90: within this context ../../../arts/mcop/object.h:92: `class Arts::Connection * Arts::Object_base::_getConnection() const' is protected mcopdcopobject.cpp:124: within this context ../../../arts/mcop/object.h:92: `class Arts::Connection * Arts::Object_base::_getConnection() const' is protected mcopdcopobject.cpp:126: within this context make[4]: *** [kmcop_la.all_cpp.lo] Error 1 make[4]: Leaving directory `/opt/kde3/src/kdelibs/arts/kde/mcop-dcop' make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/opt/kde3/src/kdelibs/arts/kde' make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/opt/kde3/src/kdelibs/arts' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/opt/kde3/src/kdelibs' make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 $ qt-copy and kdelibs from HEAD.

Re: KDE 3 build problems - someone - 2001-11-27

This is definitively the wrong place to ask. Don't run HEAD if you are not a developer and don't know where to ask!

Re: KDE 3 build problems - Carg - 2001-11-27

I'm only asking here because it was reported in this week's KC. I'm running HEAD because I hope to see all the compilation problems fixed before the beta 1 release, which is near.

Re: KDE 3 build problems - someone - 2001-11-27

KC summarizes mailing-lists and is mentionend here. But KC doesn't summarize dot.kde.org postings and posts them to mailing-lists. So if you have problem you have to post yourself to the mailing-lists. Sounds logical, or?

Re: KDE 3 build problems - Carg - 2001-11-28

I can't believe I'm arguing this, but anyway. I'm discussing something mentioned in the article.

Re: KDE 3 build problems - someone - 2001-11-28

Don't argue, just notice you get no help here.

Re: KDE 3 build problems - Carg - 2001-11-28

Oh, really? But the problem's been fixed. Thanks.

!?! - Otter - 2001-11-27

From Linus' bug report: >The problem happens with .kwd files too, I just happen to test >with the sources for the manuscript for "Just for Fun" (which was >done on a iMac with Word) Presumably that was his coauthor using the iMac and Word. Still, it's something to provoke people with the next time a MacOS advocacy war breaks out on Slashdot. ;-)

KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-27

Thinking of Thesaurus, I use WordNet as my personal dictionary in KDE (installed locally) and it is indeed a nice one with KDict. I have also contributed this Autocorrect Database like entries: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=258 These thesaurus and Autocorrect entries will make KWord much useful for the Desktop User and Corporate ones too. I persistently requested at bugs.kde.org to have a white mouse pointer and animated mouse cursors but no body heard. So, I created (though I did not knew much about bdf fonts, Rick Hamsley suggested me to get the sources and use xmbdfed). Luckily I got this white mouse cursor which beautifies KDE a bit more. But for not so high resolutions (800x600): Normal white mouse cursor: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=134 Large white mouse cursor: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=281 Are there any hopes of having Animated Mouse pointers for KDE??? Even this can be implement very easily, like replacing the bitmapped pointer with a nice PNG image, just like 'Show Busy Cursor' option. And then We the users can create many _REAL_NICE_ animated mouse pointers. After being in Love with KDE for over 2 years, I feel that KDE has problems with: 1. Toolbars: arrangement, text configurations are not as expected.You can't add all desired buttons in the main toolbar of Konqueror for example. Grammatical incorrect usage in Toolbar options like "Text Position" which doesn't make any sense to the user are used. Instead it can be renamed to "View"-> icons only -> Text Only -> Text Aside icons -> Text Under Icons instead of: "Text Position" -> icons only -> Text Only -> Text Aside icons -> Text Under Icons 2. Memory Management: Large files like this "English to Hindi Dictionary" which is about 3.9mb will destablize KDE if opened in Konqueror and when you don't have KDE's amount of ram say 128mb. The Memory management is very bad, KDE get unstable by konqueror to display a mere 3.9mb file with a system running kde with 128mb ram. no other application was running. This problem with not happen when you have 256+ ram, but KDE application must be optimized to handle large and huge files. This is that file: http://sanskrit.gde.to/hindi/dict/eng-hin.html Now if you open the above file with Netscape 4.77 you won't have any problem at all. Some KDE users were saying that Galeon was also efficient to handle this file. But I did not checked that out. 3. Styles: Most styles do not have Taskbar buttons and Slider Handle implemented. And the 'Separator' in toolbars do not appear at all. even when you insert more than one separator by 'Configure Toolbar' option. Even the QTWindows Style does not look like Windows sytle on the kicker. Please see Wish-Kicker.png, (attachment). Ignore the 'K Start' button, but observe the "Task Buttons" and the 'separator and applet handle' which are not supposed to flat, as our current KDE has :( 4. Fonts and Resolution: In Windows the Standard X dpi resolution is 96dpi, and most webpages etc., use that. Now in KDE if you use M$ fonts the sizes vary very much and fonts look ugly. Even KDict ignores the X -dpi resolution set in '/etc/X11/xdm/Xservers' file. I set that to '96 dpi' which makes fonts look more nicer than the 100dpi or the 75dpi. yes the default font settings in the KDE are great. 5. Window Focus: here is the simple way to under stand this annoyance: 1. Click on "KWord"/"KControl" button, now quickly 1. Press Alt+F2, and begin to 2. enter "dot.kde.org/1006857856" (this is slow to type isn't it?) 3. Did you finished typing, or got annoyed by the switch of focus to kword/kcontrol causing much frustration. In Windows 2000, This trouble has been removed which was bugging win95 and win98, Now new windows appear in background and the taskbutton blinks to show that a new window has activated, while you can comfortably type/do your work. This also bothers me when I read in Konqeror web browser, and when I choose to open in new window, the new window annoyingly appears, disturbing my reading/typing. I wish and pray for KDE 3 to be more memory efficient and no non-sense desktop environment.

Wish-kicker.png - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-27

Sorry Forgot to attach the sample taskbar image.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-27

heh, yeah there is always one of these jokers who likes this idea... really it is pretty bad and sucky... i mean what does start mean to me? isnt the computer all ready started... Really if we wanted to get cutesy and add text why dont we call it run? Well because it does many things, not only run... Really the metephore is pisspoor... This is why apple always did the Apple... and Winders tried to be smart and make a start bar. Really it gains nothing but UI clutter. Even they surrenderd and had to make an arrow saying "Press here idiot". Windows is not the standard here... If you want to use windows please do, I am not stopping you. If you want to build a first class UI, then read the studies that have been done. Apple, Amiga and NeXT did a great deal of actual research, read their papers. Cheers -ian reinhart geiser

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Rakko - 2001-11-28

Now, now, let's not get snooty. The post wasn't even *about* the "start" button; it was talking about whether the toolbar handles are flat or not. The look of the K button should be (and is already) up to the user.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-27

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-27

>i mean what does start mean to me? and what does main(){} means to you? People ask "Why click on Start to shutdown my computer?" here is the answer: Start->Shutdown (Start the process of shutdown) Start->Programs->Word (Start the program word) Simply put the Start as "Begin The process of". Then the "Start" will make sense. Now you tell me "What does K stands for???" ("Krash?") and K->Internet->Konqueror (Krash konqueror on the Internet ;)??? Don't mind but that k button will make more sense if it had some text describing its purpose like "Menu" or "Open" "Begin", or even "Linux". By the way Wordnet dictionary meanings of 'start': START: Verb: 1. Take the first step or steps in carrying out an action. 2. Set in motion, cause to start 3. Have a beginning, in a temporal, spatial, or evaluative sense 4. Begin or set in motion 5. Begin work or acting in a certain capacity, office or job Hope 'Start' now makes sense to you!

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-27

it only means these things because you where trained. i personally have never run windows. i guess i do not understand why we need to break our good UI design for a few lazy windows users. cheers -ian reinhart geiser

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-27

> i guess i do not understand why we need to break our good UI design for a few lazy windows users. First of all we don't have to break anything our Good UI has. Only a horizontal variable has to be defined in kicker sources and the Styles has to add the 'not-implemented' code of slider, applet-handle, and taskbuttons. a good style is Qnix. Unfortunately I don't know KDE programming and even after looking and tampering the kicker sources I could not get it done. And Windows users are not lazy. Computers are meant to ease the work of humans not to burden with more typing and memorizing. Why use a Car, when you can walk. Does it means that you are lazy whenever you use a Car a Bed or Sofa. Let's pray Computers/Desktop Environments, ease the work we have to do and not to burden ourselves with cryptic commands 'kcmshell kstyle' to run sytle kcontrol module, or 'kfmclient openURL /usr/share/icons'. KDE provides much more comfort than windows. But only KOffice 1.2 or 3.0 will make KDE a usable platform.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - raindog - 2001-11-27

Fact: over 90% of the current computer users in the world today "where trained" that way. It's not just "a few lazy windows users", it's a user base orders of magnitude greater than the number of KDE users today. KDE is already mimicking the Start menu with the default K menu layout anyway. You could deny it but you'd be wrong. Besides, since when is it a good idea to make an interface *less* configurable? I don't have any use for the word "Start", but I'd dearly love to be able to make my K menu button tiny while leaving enough room in the kicker for two rows of taskbar buttons. Without writing C++ code or waiting hours for all of KDE to rebuild. Ideally an "ex Windows user" theme could include something to make Kicker look like the screenshot he posted, an "ex Mac user" theme could have the task switcher where the clock is in his shot and no "Start" text or taskbar, etc. Providing a way for newly converted users to feel comfortable has existed since Microsoft added Lotus keystroke support to early versions of Excel. (Probably before that too, but at any rate where's 1-2-3 now?) Once they feel comfortable, they discover they can customize their environment and they don't need the crutch anymore, but without the crutch they may never get there. The time for elitism has been over for years now. The rest of us have grown up and now it's your turn.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-27

>KDE is already mimicking the Start menu with the default K menu layout >anyway. You could deny it but you'd be wrong. Actually I think the original idea of the K menu came from Afterstep which came from NeXT Step which came from MacOS. Where do you think windows got it from, nothing in the Windows UI is anything more than a broken ripoff of some other system. As for flexability, it is a plugin that you can build a new one if you wish. I think you can even change the pixmap on it, if you get into that sort of thing. Really this is not about "growing up" or "being elete". This is about following good design rules. I have read about 15 papers on UI design, and so far none have said anything positive about the "start" menu. In fact they all have issue with the default location on top of the fact that "Start" makes no sense. In reality the "K" menu is just like any other menu on your kicker. I think Steve Jobs said* it best when he said "The only intuitive user interface is the nipple, after that it is all learned." So lets all sit down, read a help page or two and move on to more important things. Personally I see no need to waste time on such a trivial element of the UI, if you do by all means write a kicker extention and go install it. Really a more pressing issue of the UI is stuff like handleing meta-data, but that may be to dry for most people :P Cheers -ian reinhart geiser * I am not 100% on the quote, I heard it at an ADC keynote some years ago when they where complaining about dragging a floppy to the trashcan to eject it.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Chris Bordeman - 2001-11-30

I don't understand why everybody seems compelled to mention everything in Windows is a 'broken ripoff' of another system? Isn't the same thing far more true of both GNOME and KDE? Every usability study I've seen is that Linux GUIs are way behind Windows. In fact, while there are flaws, on the whole W2K is a _fine_ GUI and extremely well-thought interface (if not entirely original).

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Ian Reinhart Geiser - 2001-11-30

Well namely because I have never used Winders on a regular basis. I grew up using MacOS and NeXT so every time I have been forced into Windows I notice how broken it is. But that is just the point. 90% of the Windows users are trained to like what they get, they are not use to thing operateing normally. Most people do not realize that there are better ways of doing things, they just complain if they have to learn something new. If you are not comfortable in a car, then dont ride in it, but when your little SMART cannot do what my custom BMW can dont cry. I use KDE because it is an interesting project, I am helping make it better. No it is not perfect, but you know what? Unlike Winders I have no control over how sucky it is. If you like Winders us it, please, it will keep you out of my hair long enough to do something useful. If you want a choice though use KDE. -ian reinhart geiser

Re: Wish-kicker.png - chouimat - 2001-11-28

>The time for elitism has been over for years now. The rest of us have >grown up and now it's your turn. And I think it's really really bad because now every #$%$% ass hole can tell what todo. Mathieu

Re: Wish-kicker.png - will - 2001-11-27

don't listen to him - he is just a troll But - really - this is too similar to windows. I agree that it has great usability - it is one of the reasons this paradigm has reached 95% of all desktops. But the developers will loose a great deal of respect if they simply copied Windows so closely. But why not include it as a "Windows-look" non-default option? I really think they should do that, and a lot of users would probably use it.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - bhgic - 2001-11-29

sorry, why do we battle each other about such a tiny problem? someday, i thought, that gnu/linux/kde and all other, (please dont complain, i didnt want to start any kind of war) were an open developement, where everything was possible. nowerdays i see, that these groups dont want to be better, they only want to be something other or something strange. why couldnt it be possible to _fully_ customize kde? no, we only want to be _not_ like windoze. once, i say my own point of view concerning anything, that could be pro-win, im dead. (fyi, im not a win-lover...) just a thought... bhgic poor english - i know...

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Carbon - 2001-11-30

Rest assured, the trolls have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual people developing KDE or any OSS.

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Inorog - 2001-11-29

What's so special with this? Kicker is very capable to show exactly like this (lest the stupid "start" text)

Re: Wish-kicker.png - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-30

>What's so special with this? Kicker is very capable to show exactly like this >(lest the stupid "start" text) Just put a word "Menu" or "KDE" or "Linux" or "Unix" beside the 'K' icon. Kicker can't have text :( not even the stupid 'start' text. I want "Linux" there much like "ICEwm.". But when????

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - uhmmmm - 2001-11-27

This also bothers me when I read in Konqeror web browser, and when I choose to open in new window, the new window annoyingly appears, disturbing my reading/typing It annoys you that a new window appears when you tell it to open one? Then don't open a new window, and it won't appear!

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-27

>>This also bothers me when I read in Konqeror web browser, and when I choose to >>open in new window, the new window annoyingly appears, disturbing my reading/typing >It annoys you that a new window appears when you tell it to open one? Then don't open a new window, and it won't appear Ok, I agree, but what about popup windows, and suppose you opened an app or window and you were typing, the text you were typing get lost. or say you are reading a big article, a popup window appears hijacking the focus of the window you were reading. I feel that is an annoyance. It's just like you are reading a paper and someone puts a file/paper in front of your book.

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Julien Olivier - 2001-11-28

The problem is that the windows don't actually open when you click on it... and that's normal. Sometimes, you click on an app because you want to use it later and, while it's loading, you do another thing. Then the new window is ready and catches your keystrokes. That's annonying. Especially if the new window has hot keys such as "SHIFT-C -> close" ;)

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Guido - 2001-11-30

>Especially if the new window has hot keys such as "SHIFT-C -> close" ;) One word: KMail! I've already accidentally deleted mail because of that.

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - ac - 2001-11-27

Can't you use bugs.kde.org for bugs/wishes? If you already have done so, then great! Otherwise people should use bugs.kde.org since developers can keep track of things much more easily and not everyone reads 'the dot' for bug reports.

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-28

Could you tell me which package has these: 1. Animated Cursors 2. Toolbars 3. Naming conventions 4. Drag & Drop 5. Memory Management I don't know which package handles the above topics. I will be glad to report wishlists and bug reports but these are common to every application. And BTW F2 rename bug has been fixed since it was discussed here.

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Rob Kaper - 2001-11-28

> 1. Animated Cursors xfree > 2. Toolbars kdelibs or the specific application > 3. Naming conventions kdelibs or specific application > 4. Drag & Drop kdelibs or the specific application > 5. Memory Management Probably kdelibs as well, or the specific application

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-28

Thanks Rob Kaper, Here goes the bug reports and wishlists .....:)

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Alain - 2001-11-28

Good examples : you see that it is not easy for anybody to find the good items... Can you help me to find the good ones, so that I may post two wishes : add in KdeGames two very very good games of Gnome, Ataxx and "Seven colours" (and it is possible to make stronger and more parameted games than the Gnome ones...)

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Rob Kaper - 2001-11-30

Hm, there isn't a real team that makes games and decides what we include, it's more a loose collection of developers who make their own games. So your best chance would be to ask a KDE (game) developer if he might be into it (subscribe to one of the <a href="http://www.kde.org/mailinglists.html</a>KDE mailinglists</a>, like kde-devel or kde-games-devel) or start coding it yourself and offer it for inclusion! The mailinglists are also a good forum for programming help. :-)

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - Rob Kaper - 2001-11-30

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - not me - 2001-11-28

You obviously have a lot of desire to see KDE succeed. Why don't you start contributing yourself? It's really the only way to really get what you want out of open source software. KDE could use a dedicated person like you. Posting your desires here on the Dot isn't really the thing to do if you really want them fulfilled. About the start button: Please drop it. Let me list the reasons it is a bad idea: 1. Microsoft probably has a trademark on the Start button 2. You can't put text in the image, because it couldn't be translated then 3. How should it behave when the panel is large? I don't see a good place for the text when the panel is in its large size. You would have to deal with each possible size, plus the sides of the screen. 4. Many people who use KDE (and some who don't) would be offended by the similarity to Windows and KDE would get a _lot_ of criticism. 5. The usability benefits aren't that great. Once a KDE user discovers the "K" menu button, they won't forget its location, no matter what the icon looks like. There are much better ways of helping the user find the K button for the first time than labeling it "Start," such as making an arrow point to it the first time KDE is started, or having little "balloons" like Windows XP or the Mac "Balloon help."

Re: KWord, Font resolution, and KDE's weak areas :( - not me - 2001-11-28

Oh, whoops, I didn't see the "ignore the K start button" there. Sorry! Disregard the last half of my post please.

No Problem (Not ME ;) - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-28

>1. Microsoft probably has a trademark on the Start button I don't feel so, have you seen StarOffice 5.1 or 5.2 lately? Do you think the Start button of StartOffice is a copyright or trademark violation? definitely not. >2. You can't put text in the image, because it couldn't be translated then it can be translated if it had '[k-image] Menu' or '[tux-image] Linux' or '[Konqi-image] Desktop'. >3. How should it behave when the panel is large? I don't see a good place for >the text when the panel is in its large size. I don't expect k-start to be the default appearance; it can be an optional component to assist the ex-windows users. The Normal and Large sizes need no labels (except popup text), as they look neat and good. >4. Many people who use KDE (and some who don't) would be offended by the >similarity to Windows and KDE would get a _lot_ of criticism. and many people get offended when KDE do not behave like Windows, like the keybindings, windows uses ctrl+c, Ctrl+v etc., what if we say that these are windowish things and discard them. then how would you say KDE be a user friendly desktop environment? People are critical on anything others do and not what they themselves do. it is a sad and horrible nature of people:"Disrespecting others likes and criticizing for other's likes and dispositions." Hatred is not the answer! Having a k-start or tux-linux or k-desktop menu button will not infringe any copyright but will add more choices for many different types of users. I don't want this to be the default button, but as an optional feature (which can be disabled much like icon zooming). >5. The usability benefits aren't that great. only when you use high resolution 1024x768+. but when you use 800x600 resolution like most desktop pc with Windows and mine with KDE+RH linux. The small 16x16 button is very bothersome to be clicked, unlike this proposed 18x55 (hxw). What do you feel clicking in a small square box is easier or a rectangular button? and yes, the Start is not necessarily the word we must have to use in the k-button. here are my guesses: 1. Begin 2. Menu 3. Desktop 4. KDE 5. Linux 6. [your name] 7. Unix 8. Launcher 9. Kommence 10. Kick Start 12. GO... 13. System 14. etc... everybody has better imagination it can be made an option. I ask why hatred towards microsoft, it seems that we forget Jesus teachings "Pray for thy enemy." If Christians followed the teachings of Jesus then there would be no bombs and missile and shootouts in the schools :( Oh sorry I am getting a bit emotional.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - Alain - 2001-11-28

Of course, if the like-start button is optionnal, it is less troubling for many ones. But I feel that ">2" is not easy for translation in Chinese and many languages... I don't feel the need of writing something... It's easy to have now a big K icon and the others little. You give to the kicker bar the width of two little icons and you put all the icons in the launch applet, excepted the K button which becomes 4 x bigger that the others... And you too use the task applet, for replacing the task bar. So that you replace the simple width kicker + task bar by the double width kicker including launch and task applets. Example here : http://www.pressibus.org/linux/histo/histo9l.html (there are 5 big icons instead of 1 - I forgot that it must be at least 2 big icons, I don't know how to put the Desktop icon in the launch applet...)

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - not me - 2001-11-29

>have you seen StarOffice 5.1 or 5.2 lately? No, I was not aware it had a start button. Oops. > it can be translated if it had '[k-image] Menu' or '[tux-image] Linux' or '[Konqi-image] Desktop'. I don't quite understand you. Do you mean the text could be added seperately from the image? I guess you could do it that way. > and many people get offended when KDE do not behave like Windows, like the keybindings, windows uses ctrl+c, Ctrl+v etc., what if we say that these are windowish things and discard them. But those things are usability issues. I am trying to say that the "start" text in the button does not make it easier to use. Please see my next response. >The small 16x16 button is very bothersome to be clicked, unlike this proposed 18x55 (hxw). What do you feel clicking in a small square box is easier or a rectangular button? Because the button is in the *exact* corner of the screen, where even a small child could hit it every time. The button is essentially infinitely large! You can move the mouse as far down or to the right as you want and you will never go past it. It is not bothersome at all to hit it. This is a basic mouse usability principle (and one Microsoft ignored in Win95/98 by making the Start button 2 pixels from the edge of the screen! Doh!) The K button is already so easy to press, making it larger would simply waste valuable panel space. There is a similar argument for making the default to be like the Mac with the menus at the top of the screen. When the menus are there, they are much faster to use because you don't have to worry about moving the mouse past them. Unfortunately, this would confuse all the ex-Windows users out there, so it really can't be done. You see, I'm not hating Windows users, I just don't think that the Start button is a good usability feature. I'm sorry I brought this up now, since you said to ignore it. Anyway, you didn't answer my question about why you haven't started contributing yourself. I think that question is more important than this silly argument about the Start button.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-30

>Anyway, you didn't answer my question about why you haven't started contributing yourself. I tried by learing the "KDE programming Language" a book by Uwe Theim, and believe me it was about his program instead of teaching KDE he was teaching his program which was very badly explained. I could not understand anything in his book and my $$200+ dollars got trashed. The KDE 2.0 devlopement book is also not clear. I am an average C++ programmer, and I find no book or resources which could teach me KDE/QT and especially the signal slot mechanism. I never programmed a gui. Tried but failed. I do contribute to KDE, by hunting and reporting bugs, asking for good features, encouraging new KDE developers by thanking them for their application even if their application is of no use to me. Now I am creating few bright icons. You'll see that soon at http://www.kde-look.org, as I don't was to release unfinished and incomplete set of icons.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - someone - 2001-11-30

> I could not understand anything in his book and my $200+ dollars got trashed. Troll, you never paid more than $50 for this book.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-12-01

Thanks for correcting.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - Marc - 2001-12-03

If it is for beginning, there is a very good book, maybe a little old published by O'Reilly about QT. When you know QT, learning how KDE works, is a lot easier. At that moment, you will see that the KDE 2.0 development book is not bad at all. It is maybe too direct.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - will - 2001-11-29

for what its worth - you have my support. I think the important point is that the k-button needs improvement, and after agreeing on that one can always discuss the pros and cons of the alternatives and eventually find the best solution. I personally think that "menu" would be an OK alternative. But it would be even better if someone can come up with a really striking visual metaphor. But at the moment that is a solution that doesn't exist, unfortunately. I also think that the starter button should stand out a bit in comparison to the other buttons. This draws more attention to the button, and is also logical since the button doesn't start a program like the other buttons, but rather helps you to reach "buttons" that starts a program (so to speak). I notice from screenshots that start button has a different color in Windows XP, and i find this logical. I'm sure there are other ways to do it as well. btw, I'm sure the fact that the button contains text isn't an unsourmountable techical difficulty. Where there is will there is a way.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - Carbon - 2001-11-30

>>1. Microsoft probably has a trademark on the Start button >I don't feel so, have you seen StarOffice 5.1 or 5.2 lately? Just as a note, all the complaints about SO5's start button were one of the many things that made them decide to remove it, along with the rest of it's "integrated desktop". I have to tell you, this whole thing seems like kind of a moot point. If it was optional, only the trolls would care, as those who dislike it could turn it off. Especially if we named it something other then start, or perhaps just made it look _different_ then the Windows Start button. The main thing is that it needs to be slightly larger and more obvious then most buttons in order to catch attention to KDE newbs and to make it easier to click, right? Well, that's possible with wider, more colorful, different backgrounded icons, w/o the difficult to translate image text and without adding text-under-icons or such space-wasting stuff (even newbs care about desktop space :-). How about an extra-wide optional K-menu icon where the text KDE is put on three consecutive lined up gears, overlapping so that the overall effect is of a double-wide icon? Not only this, you could make it even easier for Windows transitioners by giving this icon a different background tile then default (this is already implemented, which I rather like) and by mentioning it in the introductory wizard after the customization screens, like so: --- Thanks for installing KDE! Now that you've personalized your system to taste, it's time to learn how to use KDE. Please notice the panel along the bottom of the screen. This is known as the Kicker, and it provides many useful functions. The first function of Kicker you should become acquanited with is the K-Menu, which contains access to all the programs and features that KDE is aware is installed on your system. Just click on the K-Menu icon <pic of icon here> to the lower left of the panel to open it. From there, you can click on Help to learn more about how to use KDE. --- Not being an active developer (read, have not actually committed any code to KDE CVS yet :-) ) I'm in no position to finalize this or even to really reccomend much at all, but what are the developer's opinions on this idea?

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - will - 2001-11-30

Well, I am not a developer either, but that doesn't stop me from commenting =) I agree that the button should stand out, but it must be done carefully so that it doesn't add significant complexity to the style elements on the screen. (It is a mark of amateur design that it has too many and too incoherent style-elements. (less is more)) KDE is still plagued by this, btw. I disagree that the button should have have the letters "KDE" for various reasons. One is that this suggestion does not even start to take on the task of improving usability. The entire point of usability is that the design by *itself* shall simply tell you what its own purpose is. In usability studies they ask the test subjects "what do you think this is for", and if the design is good, the layout will be self-explanatory. Look at Suns usability test for GNOME's starter: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ut1_report/exploring_desktop.html I think people underestimate how good Microsofts start-button is in this respect. Probably because they are not aware of the tasks GUI design is called upon to solve. Contrary to the contrieved counterconsiderations from someone else here, people *do* immediatly understand the purpose of this button. It is designwise even a bit bold (in a Miles Davis kind of way -"but it contains text?!!" - "So what? It works.") I also oppose the idea that the button should contain the words "KDE", because getting those letters out is a developer-concern, not a user concern. What interest does the user have in knowing that some elements of the the software he is using is made by a group called KDE? Absolutely none. On the contrary: get such things out of the way, and start thinking about what the user needs to know in order to be comfortable and get things done.... A related issue is the use of gears as symbolic elements. These are also chosen because the developers like it rather than because it expected to go well with the users. I personally think this is bad design, because it is too cold and alienating for common users. I can almost feel the smell of diesel when I look at KDE. If you asked a design bureau to design the desktop you could be sure they would stay far away from a style like that. I literally shudder at the suggestion that a presupposition for using a GUI should be be told how it works before you use it. Imagine all the usability problems solved in this way - then you would require the user to read two pages of instructions before you start to work. Again, this is to ignore the very point of userdesign: it is the art of making things self-explanatory.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - David Simon - 2001-11-30

>> I also oppose the idea that the button should contain the words "KDE", because getting those letters out is a developer-concern, not a user concern. What interest does the user have in knowing that some elements of the the software he is using is made by a group called KDE? Absolutely none. On the contrary: get such things out of the way, and start thinking about what the user needs to know in order to be comfortable and get things done.... << I actually think you have a definite point. One thing to remember is that no other DE I've ever seen manages to keep their logo entirely off the main menu button (Windows, KDE, GNOME, MacOS even). However, it might be good if KDE was the first. >> I literally shudder at the suggestion that a presupposition for using a GUI should be be told how it works before you use it. Imagine all the usability problems solved in this way - then you would require the user to read two pages of instructions before you start to work. Again, this is to ignore the very point of userdesign: it is the art of making things self-explanatory. << That concept has another name, intuitivity, and I may just be speaking out of my rear end here, but I think that to make a UI completely self-explanatory will also make it almost completely useless. There has to be at least some sort of manual (even if it's only a sprinkling of 3-word long manuals in the form of tooltips), because to make a UI intuitive, you have to make it look like something the user already knows about. KDE already does this by making some apps UI's have elements in similar with other common DE's, but this can't solve everything, as KDE does not do the exact same things as any other environment. If you've seen the User Interface Hall of Shame, you'll notice that almost always, providing an accurate allusion to a non-computer device in a computer UI results in screen-space loss, loss of functionality, and a slight to non-existant increase in usability. This is because computers do things no other devices do. And I haven't even looked at the problems of trying to do extra-computer assocations that work in all the different cultures and languages KDE works under. (For instance, the concept of red for stop and green for go is not applicable to very many countires at all) Here's my theory about UI: Users of a computer interface along the lines of KDE (user friendliness but power equally important, as opposed to say a preschool app or a high-octane 3d modeller) can be divided into two groups : those who will explore the interface and find out what everything does, and those who will attempt to establish patterns that do given tasks, without knowing what their actions mean. This is based on personal experience, though of course that's not worth _that_ much :-). Providing handy, _short_ documentation (the segment above is not 1 or 2 pages long, it's a short paragraph) that's written right, imo solves the problems of both groups. The first group wants to know where they can start exploring, and the second group wants a task-by-task deliniation of where they can get done the thing they're currently trying to do. The paragraph gives the first group a good place to start exploring from, Kicker and the K-Menu, while also giving the second group a good place to start searching for the method of how to complete task x from, K-Menu->Help. KDE's help is nicely done for the first group, as the Introduction to KDE gives the first group a load of things to check out, and the rest of the manual acts like a reference for that group once they've learned enough about apps in general. The second group needs a quick set of docs that immediately pop up, because they can't be expected to look around for the online manual. My proposed final page, along with KTip and similar things, provides for this second group. KDE is a complex set of applications. However, once you learn how to use it, you may very well never need the docs again, so it's worth the developer's and user's while to read a manual so as to learn how to use it properly.

Re: No Problem (Not ME ;) - will - 2001-12-01

Ok - I need to think about that... I'll be back! :) PS. I may not want to go as far as to remove all references to KDE - just make it more discreet perhaps...

LAN wizard - Joe - 2001-11-28

The LAN wizard is a really great idea! Now all it needs are some nice pictures and better text disposition. Any network related pictures release as GPL out there? :)

Re: LAN wizard - aleXXX - 2001-11-28

If you find some, send them to me :-) Alex, the author

Apropos annoyances - Sagie - 2001-11-29

Apropos annoyances: Compairing KHTML with Gecko, there is one thing that bothers me - when returning to previous page, in Gecko now the previous position in that page appears immediately (by position I mean the portion of the page after scrolling down), like in IE, when in KHTML it is still the top of the page that shows first and only after a while the view jumps to the actual position. It may seem like a minor thing, but when jumping back and forth between long web pages it becomes an annoyance. I would love to fix it myself, but I am not that proficient in programming yet, unfortunately :) cheers Sagie

Re: Apropos annoyances - Rakko - 2001-12-04

That annoys me immensely. For one thing, it's jarring and distracting to see the image on the screen flip from one part of the page (the top where it starts) to another part (the part you want to be at, once it's done loading). For another, it's a hassle to wait for it to load enough of the page to jump down there. Just position it such that it doesn't 'jump,' even if the content is blank at first. Also, I've noticed that when I open a new konq window (middle click on a URL) to a URL with an HTML anchor, the window starts up with that anchor at the top. Good. BUT if I then maximize the window, the anchor ends up just about anywhere *except* the top.

Re: Apropos annoyances - Rakko - 2001-12-04

Re: Apropos annoyances - Rakko - 2001-12-06

AAAAAGH! You know what else annoys me immensely? When I try to post to the dot, hit "Add," and then the request times out. I tried posting this three times, and apparently each time I tried it actually succeeded, even though I was told it didn't go through. Thus the triple posting. Grrr...

KDE suggestion - Future KDE user - 2001-11-29

Add an option to make KDE look and behave EXACTLY like Windows. If this is added, I will switch to KDE from W2K, but not before... I just can't handle learning a new UI, but want Linux...

Re: KDE suggestion - Danny - 2001-11-29

This is silly..you are unable to use KDE because it says K on the startbutton instead of Start? And a few other minor differences? With some themes most people do not even notice the difference. If you are really unable to handling this how did you manage to learn the w2k gui? Since it differs an equally great deal compared to win98.

Re: KDE suggestion - Chris Bordeman - 2001-11-30

What huge differences between the W98 and W2K GUIs could you be talking about???

Re: KDE suggestion - mark dufour - 2001-11-29

you're kidding, right? :)

Re: KDE suggestion - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-11-30

get Win2k icon theme from http://www.kde-look.org and in the icons seciton.

Re: KDE suggestion - nusuth - 2001-12-02

I guess/hope that is not his real problem, any retarded can learn meanings of new icons and default kde icons don't look that bad.But consider a windows user trying to change resolution settings of kde, the difference is huge. He probably wants kde to behave just like windows. Perhaps a linux & xfree86 specialized desktop environment would be a good idea.

Re: KDE suggestion - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2001-12-03

Yes, I agree, I have many times asked for easy system and network configuration utilities based on atleast linuxconf, since KDE is totally dependent on Gnome configuration tools, like Mandrakeconf, Linuxconf, etc., Hope we find better tools in KDE 3.x

Re: KDE suggestion - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2001-12-03

:: KDE is totally dependent on Gnome configuration tools, like :: Mandrakeconf, Linuxconf, etc., Try SuSE - their "conf" program is called Yast2, and it is accessed as modules in the Control Center. Right where you set your font and color choices, you jump down a few icons and can set whether or not apache runs on your computer, and what modules are loaded into the kernel. Attached is a picture of the SuSE 7.1 Control Center - it's several months old; 7.3 is sitting on my desk, and I'm backing up my system to install it right now. -- Evan

Errr..... - Pungent - 2001-12-01

So, why switch to Linux at all? If what you want is W2K, then use w2k. There is more to learn about LInux than just a UI. If you're afraid of learning a new UI, then really, don't bother. I'm not meaning to be elitest, so don't get offended. I just am curious why you'd want Linux if what you really want is w2k.

Re: Errr..... - Carbon - 2001-12-01

Well, what he was saying is he wanted the power of Linux with Windows' UI. The seperation between UI and core is particluarly visible in Linux, where the entire graphical system is composed of packages that run in user-space.

Re: Errr..... - CPungent - 2001-12-03

Right. I know, but at the same time, personally I HATE the Windows UI, and wouldn't waste my time re-implementing it in code. Maybe there IS some developer willing to, but again, the UI is a very small part that if you can't really get past that change, there are LOTS of other new things to learn about in a *Nix system. And really, I may hate the w2k UI, but it IS at least stable. What else is he looking for?

We should get KDE like win2k / XP - James - 2001-12-03

Look, gentlemen, as I see it were at war. This is a war of values. Should you make people pay through the teeth for a very user friendly OS? I'd like to imagine the whole goal of KDE is to produce a stable, powerful and easy to manage UI for Linux and other Unix based OSes. If KDE were to have an option, perhaps a kind of theme that made it behave a lot like its rival what I see happening is the big bad wolf will have a bit of a problem. I think what we need is something to help get people in the door. They'll use KDE at first because they can do whatever they want and not have to learn a new GUI. But after they realize their freedom, they'll become our latest recruits. Sound like a plan? Later, J

Re: We should get KDE like win2k / XP - no - 2003-05-27

Re: We should get KDE like win2k / XP - lol - 2004-12-02

a straight forward answer, no lol i think it would be great to have an easy interface for people migrating to linux, its a great start and i think some developers already did it. But for the experienced people in linux, they wouldn't agree because they want linux to stand out and they sure dont want to copy windows. I think its a great idea

Re: We should get KDE like win2k / XP - Ricardo - 2004-08-27

Yes

Re: We should get KDE like win2k / XP - AnRkey - 2004-08-28

http://nigritude.sourceforge.net/nigritude-ultramarine/download.shtml

Re: KDE suggestion - Idiot - 2002-06-09

thats nice. I am happy with windows and this fag keeps telling me it sucks. yea, well i don't see anything wrong with it (there are probably tons). Im just not as cool as you people using linux- if thats okay

Re: KDE suggestion - xmoogle - 2003-07-08

So this person's a fag for having and stating an opinion, or just happens to be gay? Either way his sexuality (real or imagined) has nothing to do with it. My fiancee wants me to mention that she was a "windows freak" and when she saw/used my Linux computer she never went back. Anyway to the person who wants KDE acting like Windows why not use XPde ( http://www.xpde.com/ ) instead of KDE? It's still development (I think).. but keep an eye on it, it could help you make the transition. Personally I never had any problems switching from the Windows GUI to KDE but I am kinda a geeky girl then again my girlfriend isn't and she didn't have probs either.. we now use Afterstep anyway which has a very different interface to Windows. As a side note, Longhorn (Win 2005) is looking remarkably ugly, isn't it? I'm wondering if the person who wanted a Win2kish KDE has ever actually used KDE.. long enough to learn it, and it's slight differences to Windows I mean.

Re: KDE suggestion - JJ - 2003-10-30

I will tell you what is wrong with windows. Bill Gates never wrote an origional piece of code for any of his software. Bill screwed the man who wrote DOS, He sold it to IBM before he even owned DOS. Bill did not stop there, he stole Windows from Apple, but Apple also stole it from Xerox. Again, Bill did not stop there. He somehow set up a deal so that if a computer was sold anywhere in the US, Bill got money for a licence for a copy of windows that the computer store had to pay, whether or not a copy of windows was sold to the customer. In effect he cramed windows down everybodys throat. Another way he did this was he made deals with hardware manufactures that only windows would have the latest hardware drivers. So, the latest games would work on windows. That is just a few of the reasons people every day switch to Linux!! Jeremiah

the only - daniel - 2001-11-29

thing i miss is a Winzip like program. I miss click with the right button on a folder and appears an option to compress it (tar and gzip). We only have an option to descompress when we click on a gzip file. It will be dificult to add this feature to ark?

Re: the only - TarHai - 2001-11-30

Hint: You can create an action/program for all file types which just runs a command like "tar zcvf ...". I cannot recall the details and I have no access to KDE right now, so you have to work it out by yourself. Take a look at creating action/programs and the parameters involved. The command should be something resembling tar zcvf %f.tgz %f but i'm not shure.

Re: the only - Holger Lehmann - 2001-12-03

At least I have the entries "Extract" and "Exctract to ..." in the context menu when I do right click on a zip-file. I think the rest should be rather easy to do if not on the way already. Please check out what the guys from the ark project are saying :-) - Holger