KDE 3.0.2: Second KDE 3 Service Release Ships

Wednesday, 3 July 2002  |  Dre

The KDE Project today announced the availability of KDE 3.0.2, the second maintenance release of the KDE 3.0 series. Dirk Mueller, the KDE 3 release coordinator, explained that "a number of stability and useability enhancements have been backported from the active KDE 3.1 branch to the KDE 3.0 codebase and bundled in this update. We recommend that all KDE 3 users update to this newest, stable release." More details are in the announcement, or jump directly to the download directory. Congratulations to the KDE developers on another great release! And stay tuned: the first KDE 3.1 alpha release, this one complete with a slew of cool new features (such as the widely requested tabbed browsing in Konqueror), is due out next week already!

Comments:

Kde rocks, redhat sucks - abemud - 2002-07-03

title tells it all.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Navindra Umanee - 2002-07-03

Yes, go KDE!, but what's with the hostility to Red Hat?

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - L.D. - 2002-07-03

why does red hat suck specifically? I don't use red hat, I am a Mandrake user. Is it red hat's relative lack of support for KDE? or is it somthing else?

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - ac - 2002-07-03

I use RedHat, and I like it. And I use KDE on RedHat, which means I have to put up with a lot of shit from RedHat people AND KDE people. But basically, the deal is that RedHat never releases updated KDE updates. What you get on the CD is what you're stuck with until the next full RedHat release. They prioritize Gnome over KDE, which is a perfectly valid^H^H^H^H^H interesting choice. I like their other decisions though. They're conservative on the right things and cutting edge on the right things, as far as I'm concerned. But it's a pain to be a RedHat KDE user.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Navindra Umanee - 2002-07-03

That's true, I only know one single developer working on KDE at Red Hat. :( He obviously can't do everything but I think we can safely applaud him for trying. Red Hat has tons of G developers on the other hand... How can we convince Red Hat to devote more resources to KDE? Any ideas?

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - ac - 2002-07-03

Yes, I love Bero too and shower him with kisses from abroad. The best way to get RedHat to devote resources to KDE is to just be a better desktop environment. KDE is great but it isn't perfect yet. Well, I haven't downloaded 3.0.2 yet...maybe I'm wrong ;-)

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Navindra Umanee - 2002-07-03

I don't think good has anything to do with it, unfortunately. KDE has been comparing favourably to the competition for a long time now, yet Red Hat hasn't bulged in the slightest.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - gengis - 2002-07-03

It can't just compare though - it has to be flat out, hands-down better. People invest much time learning the ins and outs of their desktop environment, and how to be productive in it. I've tried frequently to switch from GNOME to KDE, but I can't. Not because one is better than the other (To wit - KDE may be 'better' than GNOME). But because KDE doesn't work quite the way I want it to. And I'm very picky..:)

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Navindra Umanee - 2002-07-03

If you're so picky and so happy with GNOME1, I'm sure you'll be pulling your hair out with GNOME2, eh!

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Matthew Kay - 2002-07-03

I agree completely. I have considered switching to other distributions (usually Mandrake or Debian, depending on the time of day:), but I think I will stick with RedHat, despite KDE pains. Why? A few reasons: a) I like a number of their choices in what software they choose, apart from preferring GNOME to KDE :( b) Most proprietary software for linux comes pre-compiled for RedHat, so I know I can run things that don't provide source. c) A fair amount of open-source software is also precompiled on RedHat. d) The lure of Debian's apt-get is reduced by the fact that I now have apt-get for rpm, and combined with the Freshrpms tree and various others, apt-get can get me pretty much anything I need. e) The hassle of switching, when I have already built custom scripts for various things on my system, frankly isn't worth it. That last point basically boils down to "I'm used to it, and I don't feel like learning the quirks of a new system just yet" Anyway, the lack of KDE RedHat rpms is quite annoying.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Anonymous - 2002-07-03

With b), c) and e) you should have no problem with Mankdrake as it's perhaps the most RedHat-compatible distribution out there.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2002-07-03

Same goes for SuSE - I switched to it over Mandrake because SuSE offered RPMs faster for more packages, and were more bug free. Specifically the KDE 2.x series of RPMs. Before I switched, I even tried using Cooker. SuSE just seemed better at the time (and still does, but I haven't used Mandrake for about a year). I've never run into problems installing RH rpms on a SuSE system, either. -- Evan

Debian (was: Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks) - Janne - 2002-07-03

"I have considered switching to other distributions (usually Mandrake or Debian, depending on the time of day:)" Steer clear of Debian. They aren't actually cutting edge when it comes to KDE. I run KDE unstable. And guess what? It still doesn't have KDE3! How many months has it been already? Same thing goes for Xfree 4.2. Well, I have already made up my mind. I'll be moving to Gentoo in not so distant future.

Re: Debian (was: Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks) - mark dufour - 2002-07-03

gentoo is fantastic! as a former debian fanatic, after installing gentoo, I never looked back. I'm happy now that debian unstable didn't get kde3 for such a long time, or else I'd never have tried gentoo :-) it still hasn't got as many packages as debian, but it's groing ever more rapidly.. I love it that you get to choose yourself what you want, not just from a selection that is called 'unstable.' I just 'emerged' kde 3.0.2, although the default is still at 3.0.1. you just have to 'unmask' kde 3.0.2 and it's the new default. you have to love the ability to chose :-) the gentoo kernel sources are also great.. preemptible, low-latency patches.. :-P and of course, compiling everything from source is 'the-only-way' ;-)) pim zou het zo gewild hebben.

Gentoo - Phillip - 2002-07-03

Gentoo is great. It compiles everything from source including KDE, so it runs quick optimised on my machine. It will automatically upgrade your software overnight if you ask it to. The only reason I came to this site to check the 3.02 changelog was because I noticed I was running 3.02 this afternoon. Gentoo takes a long time to install, but once installed you never have to worry about keeping your system updated again. Phillip.

Re: Gentoo - Rich - 2002-07-03

Gentoo would be great if you could get a DVD/CDRs of the complete distro - its currently unusable unless you've got an xDSL link. Gentoo on a 56K takes days to download :( Hopefully someone at Gentoo or a kindly Linux redistributor will see the light and sort something out one day - its a hell of a lot quicker to update if you can initially build from a local copy!

Re: Gentoo - Bill - 2002-07-04

See the 6/14/2002 post here: http://www.gentoo.org/, entitled "Gentoo Linux T-shirts, caps, mugs and CDS. Oh, my!"

Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - cobaco - 2002-07-03

The Debian KDE maintainer has 3.02 packages (those were available over a week ago), that are apt-gettable (see http://calc.cx/kde.txt for apt-lines). It pays to pop in to the debian-kde list every once in a while:-)

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - Janne - 2002-07-03

So where is Xfree 4.2? Where are OFFICIAL KDE-debs? they have had MONTHS to get the packages in the official unstable-tree!

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - cobaco - 2002-07-03

If I remember correctly, the debs won't be uploaded to unstable till after the gcc 3.1.x transition, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/2002/debian-kde-200206/msg00072.html for the message from the maintainer explaining this. As for official kde-debs, these debs are from the debian kde maintainer, and these debs are the ones that will go into unstable, once the gcc 3.1. transition is made. That's about as official as it gets. As for Xfree, debian has to port Xfree to several architectures, work on 4.2. has started (see http://www.debianplanet.org/article.php?sid=696&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 for more info), they should work fine on i386, but still need lots of work for the architectures not supported by Xfree while supported by Debian.

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - Quams - 2002-07-04

As for XFree. Branden Robinson (head of the official Debian X-Strike force) said once, that the debian packages are the source for every port ot other than i386 architectures. On the last Linux Tag in Karlsruhe one of the XFree people said that as well. So that why it takes longer for debian, if you have to have it stable on more than one arch it takes some time to get it out. Redhat, SuSe and all the others have quite a nice job here, only i386 (and maybe a bit of Sparc) and thats it. Debian runs on i386, ppc, arm, sparc, ultrasparc, mpis, mips-el, 68k, my washing machine and my microwave oven. So it sometimes takes a bit longer. Quams (Who is using debian since 5 years in an production environment nad is often quite happy that some things take their time ...)

Debian xfree4.2-packages for i386++ are there - holger - 2002-07-04

hi, please go to http://people.debian.org/branden there are experimental pre-release of XFree86 4.2.0 Debian packages available for i386, M68K, big-endian MIPS, IA-64, HP-PA and PowerPC. i run woddy on an athlon, put the deb-src line in /etc/apt/sources.list and compiled the packages from source optimized for my athlon (*), without any problems. apt-get install pentium-builder export DEBIAN_BUILDARCH=i686 apt-get -b source xfree86 Thanks, ISHIKAWA-san! Thanks, Branden. Thank you all, GNU/Debian! (*) or at least for pentiumII, athlon-optimized code is only avaible in gcc3.0

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - Debian user - 2002-07-05

How about you stop flaming and engage your brain before your tongue? Look at http://www.debianplanet.org; KDE packages have been available since 3.0.1 publicly (previously the packages were unofficial, and only if you knew where to find them, which involved asking the maintainer), and XFree86 4.2 packages are available. You, sir, are an idiot.

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - Janne - 2002-07-05

So, where are the official packages? Why aren't those packages in Sid? I have known that there are KDE3-debs floating in the net, but why aren't they in Sid? "You, sir, are an idiot." Thank you, I love you too.

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - Stephan Hachinger - 2002-07-05

Hmm, the maintainers seem to be very busy with the release of woody at the moment... that's why some things take more time at the moment. -- Stephan

Re: Deb packages for 3.0.2. are available - lmh - 2002-11-27

if there is somebody who tries to help accomplishing a task / helping others (as for the debian maintainers, who offer their freetime working on that unpaid) and "give the other users a helping hand" some people tend to be unthankful idiots who try to rip the arm. If it takes too much time for you, Janne, choose an commercial package like redhat, then you can ask them what they did with your money. Yours, LMH

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - forehead - 2002-07-03

If you paid any attention to RedHat, they take a stance very simmilar to Sun and other major for-profit *nix vendors. The only release updates if there is a damned good reason (i.e., a bug/security fix). The latest OpenSSH vunerability is a good example. They did not release the fixed OpenSSH 3.4 to RedHat Network (and their FTP site). They back ported it to OpenSSH 3.1p1 (this is RedHat 7.3). They take great pains to ensure that customers can depend on a very stable, bug/security vulnerabilty free server. They have not (and likely won't) release GNOME2 updates, either. Now you may be able to install GNOME2 out of RawHide, but that is at your own risk. The same appies to KDE.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Anonymous - 2002-07-03

> The only release updates if there is a damned good reason (i.e., a bug/security fix). http://www.kde.org/info/3.0.1.html lists security problems, so RedHat should release updates.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Shermann - 2002-07-03

Ah well, don't blame Bero or RedHat...they do quite nice work. Bero is the only one who packages kde rpms for redhat...but this is not his main work. after all, kde is not the default desktop for RH...it's gnome. But, why not building kde rpms for rh7.3 by yourself ? it's quite easy and sometimes more stable than the rh provided rpms... \sh

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - loopkin - 2002-07-03

> after all, kde is not the default desktop for RH...it's gnome. no, i think the default attitude towards desktop from RH is yelling around "Linux is not ready for the desktop", as their CEO did, and as they're server-oriented business... The truth is: "Linux is ready for the desktop, RedHat is not"

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Shermann - 2002-07-03

loopkin, what Matthew say is not the truth of the world. In general, Unix was ready for the desktop since Emacs was born ,-) Linux was ready for the desktop, since StarDivision decides to port StarOffice to Linux. The problem is, we don't have a real lobby. It's right, that RH is server-oriented, 'cause there is much more money to make in the moment. But believe me, in one or two years Linux will come to the desktop (I hope we have then translucent support under X ;))) with a thunderstrike...believe me

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Stof - 2002-07-06

<i>The truth is: "Linux is ready for the desktop, RedHat is not"</i> You'll be surprised how many people still think that Linux is not ready for the desktop. Their arguments: - None (simply claim that Linux isn't ready for the desktop). - Too hard to learn and configure ("WHAT? I have to use obscure Unix commands like xf86cfg?"?). - Too hard to install software ("Don't you get it? I shouldn't HAVE to type in ./configure!!!!", or "Yes, I spent a whole day just to figure out how to install an RPM!") - XP blows GNOME and KDE away. - "Linux is currently at a state where Windows 3.1 was."

More reasons - Raymond - 2002-07-09

I've also heard: -desktop environments crash too much -poor support for new hardware -lack of third party applications -lack of fully featured web browser -relearning shortcuts, tricks, etc. makes switching difficult -poor cut and paste support -lack of integration of applications -Windows XP is much prettier

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Paul Boddie - 2002-07-03

"after all, kde is not the default desktop for RH...it's gnome." Not on my install of RH, it isn't! (I only installed GNOME to get at the libraries that various applications require.)

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Shermann - 2002-07-03

No you didn't understand me. Default Desktop of RH is gnome, cause they provide to the GNOME community some coders. Same applies to Sun. So Gnome is supported better then gnome at RH \sh

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - nbecker - 2002-07-03

I'd like to compile myself, but RH usually applies quite a few patches to kde. Are you compiling from srpm, or from .tar? What config switches do you use? I'm running RH7.3.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Shermann - 2002-07-03

if you want, i can send you my spec files for it. regards, \sh

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-03

> But basically, the deal is that RedHat never releases updated KDE updates. Haven't you been to http://www.RPMfind.net? My RedHat 7.3 system, which came with KDE 3.0.0, is now running KDE 3.0.1 thanks to RedHat's update site. Just do a search for kdelibs or whatever package you need, and you'll find official RedHat versions for them. There is currently a 3.0.2 version of all the KDE packages, but they're CVS snapshots. I'd expect the final versions to be available within a few days. Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Corba the Geek - 2002-07-03

I suspect that you are referring to the "Rawhide" RPMS. These aren't official in anyway From the rawhide README: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Raw Hide Can Be a Bit Tough to Chew on So Run at Your Own Risk (and Enjoyment) These releases have not been quality tested by Red Hat's Quality Assurance team. They may not boot. If they boot, they may not install. If they install, they may not do anything other then waste CPU cycles. If anything breaks, you most assuredly own the many fragments which will be littered across your floor. It may not be possible to upgrade from Red Hat to Raw Hide, from Raw Hide to Red Hat, or from Raw Hide to Raw Hide! If a stable upgrade path is important to you, please do not use Raw Hide. DO NOT USE THESE RELEASES FOR ANY WORK WHERE YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR APPLICATION RUNNING, THE ACCURACY OF YOUR DATA, THE INTEGRITY OF YOUR NETWORK, OR ANY OTHER PURPOSE FOR WHICH A RESPONSIBLE HUMAN WOULD USE A COMPUTER. (But then again what would be the fun of hacking Linux if there wasn't some risk involved. ;-)....) ------------------------------------------------------------------- It is probably "safer" to download the Raw Hide SRPMS and do rpm --rebuild to make sure that it is linked with the libraries that you already have on your system - in this way you will minimize any dependencies that you might otherwise have on the unstable rawhide stuff.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-03

Okay, so I guess "official" is too strong a word. Perhaps "official pre-releases"? "Official betas"? Anyway, my point was that packages are available, and compiling from the source isn't the only option for RedHat users. While the RawHide packages are not intended to be a continuous upgrade cycle, they're quite useful for updating critical packages between releases. For instance, I used them to upgrade from KDE 3.0.0 to 3.0.1 and never had a single problem. You say that the RawHide packages have not been tested, and that's true. But none of the other vendors' packages have been tested either. How could they be, since KDE 3.0.2 just came out yesterday? Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Richard Moore - 2002-07-03

We release to vendors before users (and the branch is always available from cvs) so testing can occur before the release. We use the time delay as a final test in case anything got missed. Rich.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - ac - 2002-07-03

So correct me if I'm wrong, but the rawhide KDE RPMS are compiled with GCC 3.1, which is binary-incompatible with GCC 2.x used for RedHat 7.3. So does that mean I'd have to recompile the whole RedHat 7.3 distro from source using the GCC 3.1 compiler in order not to have compatibility problems with the rawhide RPMS? If so, I hardly see how having to recompile your distro from source rates as anywhere near as easy as downloading an RPM, which is all you have to do for Mandrake or SuSE.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-04

The latest KDE RPMs are for GCC 3.1, but it's not a major problem. You just have to make sure that two libstdc++ RPMs are installed: one with the 2.96 libraries and the other with the 3.1 libraries. The 2.96 works with your 7.3 distro, and the 3.1 works with any new stuff you've got. This is nothing new. Consider what RedHat has done with the Qt library. I can run Qt programs compiled for Qt 2.x as well as Qt 3.x, since I have both the qt and qt2 packages installed. Having two packages makes a lot of sense because otherwise I'd have to recompile everything I had linked to Qt 2.x after upgrading to Qt 3.x. There are other examples: python and python2, for instance. RedHat seems to go to a lot of trouble to provide legacy packages that allow old programs to work without recompiling, so I really don't know where all this RedHat-bashing is coming from. Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - john - 2002-07-05

i've actually got a working 3.0.2 distro (read post below), but i went through and first did what you're doing w/ both libstdc++ packages installed, and it wouldn't work. then i went through and upgraded libstdc++, glibc, gcc, and much more to the new rawhide versions, also grabbing all the compat- packages so stuff kept working. even then i still got 'libDCOP.so.4: undefined symbol "some reasonable symbol w/ garbage on the end"' when running apps. at this point, i don't really care, it works, but however you found to get it working doesn't seem to work for everyone. your points about having multiple versions of packages installed is true, but in this case it seems to have not been done correctly.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Sad Eagle - 2002-07-06

At the very least, you'd have to update FAM. Having libraries in memory that link to different version of libstdc++ is a very bad idea.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - john - 2002-07-03

how did you manage this? i've been trying to get the rawhide kde3.0.1 packages to run, and they keep on puking on linker issues (the munged symbol names don't match up). any clue on how to get around this?

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Rw - 2002-07-03

I think a previous commenter answered this. I presume you're trying to use the binaries. These were compiled using gcc 3.1. They will not work on a 7.x based system without reasonably significant other upgrades

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - john - 2002-07-04

right, i actually did go through the whole process of upgrading to the rawhide libstdc++3, gcc 3.1, glibc, plus all the compat-* pacakges. after much dependency graph walking, i got them all installed, and the kdebase/kdelib 3.0.2 binaries *still* would not run.. grrr... its so irritating.. i'm a long time redhat fan, and this might actually push me from their distro.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - ac - 2002-07-04

This incompatibility isn't RedHat's fault, although driving their poor users to the extreme of mix-and-matching RPMS is. When mixing rawhide RPMS into your non-rawhide software, you've got to make sure they're binary compatible versions (check the major revision number: 7.1 and 7.2 are binary compatible, 7.3 and 8.0 are not). The next RedHat will be 8.0, the major version change indicating broken binary compatibility. Don't mix and match major version numbers. It's bad. And if you don't know what the next version number is gonna be? Ask. (Okay, so everyone [including me] though 7.3 was gonna be 8.0. And www.distrowatch.com is calling the next RedHat release 7.4, but I'm right this time. The next RedHat is 8.0) But the same could be said for any distro. Every development version of every major distro is switching to GCC 3.1 (because it's better) but they're also breaking backwards compatibility at the same time. So don't throw Mandrake development binaries into your current Mandrake box or you'll break it, the same way you just broke RedHat. Of course, Mandrake users don't have to RESORT to pulling RPMS off their development versions. But that's another story.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-04

I'm not sure that the binary compatibility issue is such a big problem. Currently I've got two versions of the libstdc++ package installed: 2.96 and 3.1, and they coexist without any problems that I can see. My RedHat 7.3 programs link with 2.96 and the RawHide ones link to 3.1. There seems to be a pretty clean upgrade path. Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-04

I can't remember what all packages I had to install. Send me an email with the errors you're getting and I may be able to help. I can also give you a list of my installed packages if you'd like. Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - abemud - 2002-07-03

redhat sucks because it doesn't provide packages. Yes, I'm compiling now but that's not the point. Got to find some time and dump redhat. 4th of July might be the perfect time! Gentoo should be the lucky one.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - annonymous - 2002-07-03

Yeah, DeadRat sucks really bad. Gentoo or LFS are good choices.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-03

> redhat sucks because it doesn't provide packages. Doesn't *anybody* here use rpmfind.net??? You can get updated KDE packages there. Refer to my previous post. Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - ac - 2002-07-03

I suppose you haven't tried installing those RPMS, Trevor. I'd like to know what sort of difficulties you get from running GCC 3.1-compiled binaries on an otherwise GCC 2.96RH-compiled system. If it actually works, that's a simple solution. However, I have a hunch using rpmfind.net in this case is the fastest possible route to an unusable system.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Trevor - 2002-07-04

I've done it already. All I know is that it works for me. Refer to my other messages for an explanation of why. Trevor

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Marcos Tolentino - 2002-07-03

I'a a rawhide user... and kdebase-3.0.2-0.cvs20020627.1.i386.rpm and kdelibs-3.0.2-0.cvs20020625.1.i386.rpm are available for at least a week.... let's see the final 3.0.2 I don't think I'll wait too long...

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - DBArros - 2002-07-04

I *DUMPED* RedHat yesterday. These guys are operating in a "corporate level". I just been to a job interview for computer technician vacancy where they cleared that they don't do work for home users because they're just time consuming and non profit. Companies like that. I now use Conectiva Linux 8.0 I am a proud brazilian. Also 5 times World Cup champion.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Anonymous - 2002-07-04

> I am a proud brazilian. Also 5 times World Cup champion. You are a soccer professional and played in Japan?

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Marcos Tolentino - 2002-07-04

>> I am a proud brazilian. Also 5 times World Cup champion. >You are a soccer professional and played in Japan? You would never understand what that means... []´s another proud brazilian

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Damocles - 2002-07-04

> Also 5 times World Cup champion. Really? I thought that the last few winners were UK, France and Belgium. I don't recall Brazil entering the Tiddilywinks World Cup at all. Unless you meant a different 'World Cup'.. you should really specify which game.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Carg - 2002-07-05

Dude, what the hell is Tiddilywinks?

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2002-07-05

It involves men in bars wearing skirts and eye contact. I think Mosfet has a page about it. :-P (And Mosfet is cool by me - I've been doing Rocky Horror for long enough I didn't bat an eye when I saw his pics. Otherwise, that would have been tiddilywinking, I think.) Oh, and... Alt-F2 and typing gg:tiddilywinks will get you the answer. -- Evan

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Damocles - 2002-07-05

> Dude, what the hell is Tiddilywinks? Players take it in terms to push the edge of one plastic disc onto the edge of another and 'ping' the latter disc into a cup. The winner is the first to ping an agreed number into the cup. See http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Hand-Eye_Coordination/Tiddlywinks/?tc=1 for details.

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2002-07-04

: I am a proud brazilian. Also 5 times World Cup champion. Y'know, if you're a sports star, you might think about using your name to promote KDE. Even if you just mention it in interviews, it would look good. -- Evan "Who is less dense and more ironic here"

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Carg - 2002-07-05

Every single Brazilian in the world are PENTA!

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - Anonymous - 2002-07-05

*YAWN*

Re: Kde rocks, redhat sucks - JAS - 2004-10-29

I have used redhat since 5.2 days and I have seen it get progressively worse. My main gripe is there changing of packages and abandoment of others change is good, yes but why get rid of basics....pine, mc...for a few. KDE is my preference, but redhat kde is no good. I use suse now and do not regret the switch.

Which Game? - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2002-07-03

The SuSE "SORRY" file is amusing, but which game are they referring to? Wimbledon, I'd guess... -- Evan

Re: Which Game? - Anony Mouse - 2002-07-03

They refer to the world champinship soccer final. I would guess yul live in the U.S.A?

Re: Which Game? - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2002-07-03

Silly me, I thought it was finished, and Brazil won. Maybe I'm underestimating how long it takes to get these packaged or overestimating how long they have the source before they have to have it done. :) While I played football when I was a young kid (forward, mostly), I got much more into cricket in my teens, and now I don't really follow any sports. -- Evan

Re: Which Game? - AC - 2002-07-03

<i>While I played football when I was a young kid (forward, mostly), I got much more into cricket in my teens, and now I don't really follow any sports.</i> I guess that's the whole point. If you live outside the USA you dont have to follow sports in order to know the football results. If there is a goal you HEAR it (unless you dont have any neighbours). If your countries team or one of the larger ethnic minorities in your country wins, you can see it on the street because of the cars that drive through the streets, blowing their horns and waiving their countries flag out of the window, for at least one day. Just after the final even germanies most staid TV news magazine only reported about the world cup in the first 10 mins of the 15 min show. Heck, after Italy lost even their parliament debated whether they should fire the coach...

Re: Which Game? - Evan "JabberWokky" E. - 2002-07-03

:: If you live outside the USA Ahem. Who said I live in the US? For that matter, I have no idea when the SuperBowl is, or the World Pennant or whatever for baseball, and I lived in Florida, USA for quite a long time. Nor did I ever know the winners, although I did see plenty of people flying flags on their cars and such. -- Evan

Re: Which Game? - Carg - 2002-07-07

People watching around the world: SuperBowl - 100 million FIFA World Cup final - almost 2 billion

Re: Which Game? - Bill - 2002-07-04

Or, when your team loses, your car parked outside is doused in gasoline and several maltov (sp) cocktails are thrown on it just for kicks. Or, better yet, if one of your players make a mistake, you hear about the murder in the morning newspaper. International sports is just that, international. There's always politics involved, it sucks. Oh my god, Americans made it to the 8th place, "Yeah! We'll show them we're good at every sport!" Or, "American sucks!" "Die America!" Blah blah blah blah blah... whatever... The fact is that we're all on the same boat: Earth. Okay? I'm so sick of all the pain and suffering that goes on, just because of someone's political agenda. Or, worse, to save face from a publically made comment. And don't tell me that China/Asia is solely afflicted with this, it's all over... Out.

Re: Which Game? - Rob Kaper - 2002-07-04

I guess you do to? You do know the game is called football everywhere else, right?

Downloading packages - Charles Gauder - 2002-07-03

I notice from the changelog that only arts, kdelibs and kdebase have changes. Does this mean that I can get away with just upgrading these 3 packages or do I have to download and reload the whole lot again?

Re: Downloading packages - Anonymous - 2002-07-03

> I notice from the changelog that only arts, kdelibs and kdebase have changes. Changelog is wrong. Developers are missing discipline to log everything, every package has changes. > or do I have to download and reload the whole lot again? Perhaps the same dot reader as usual will create and offer diff files?

Re: Downloading packages - Daniel Molkentin - 2002-07-03

Simply take the diffs (3.0.1-3.0.2). They are in experimential state, but feel free to try them. http://devel-home.kde.org/~danimo/diffs/. Cheers, </daniel>

What I'd like to see... - Wigren - 2002-07-03

.. is a unified way for KDE, GNOME (and Wine?) apps to add things to the traybar. If I run korganizer in GNOME or gnomeicu in KDE, just to make two examples, the traybar-icons doesn't show up in the traybar, or they open in a separate small window..

Re: What I'd like to see... - Richard Moore - 2002-07-03

We've already discussed an extension to the NET WM spec for exactly this. Expect the problem to disappear RSN. Rich.

Re: What I'd like to see... - kervel - 2002-07-03

strange, when i used everybuddy it put'd its tray icon just fine in my kde tray..

Finally, they 've been killed (those pesky bugs)!! - seb - 2002-07-03

Waouw, this release is such an improvement over the previous one(3.0.1). The ksplash crash... disappeared Noatun... finally working (first time on my machine) An annoying Ark bug when closing .tar.gz opened via konki... disappeared Konki... faster when opening a new windows with the middle button Kghostview crash when PgDowning too fast... disappeared and this gives the ultimate desktop experience on linux... 1000 TX for all this worK to KDEckers

Great - halux - 2002-07-03

Yes, kde is great and many bugs are gone. Now I will wait for 3.0.3 and I hope it fixes the save file in kate over fish/ssh bug :( halux

Re: Great - beutelin - 2002-07-03

I can do that with current cvs release, so it seems to be fixed. beutelin

Re: Great - halux - 2002-07-03

What cvs branch are you using. I am using KDE_3_0_BRANCH. Updated today.

Re: Great - Dawit A. - 2002-07-03

Do you mean the error message that says "This file could not be saved. Please check if you have write permission ?" when you attempt to save file using fish ? If so, it has been annoying me as well ; so I will see if I can take care of it. Dawit A.

Re: Great - halux - 2002-07-03

Yes, that is the message. Thank you very much. have fun Felix

Re: Great - Dawit A. - 2002-07-05

Someone already beat me to it :) It is fixed in the current development branch for KDE 3.1. Regards, Dawit A.

Re: Great - hal - 2002-07-07

Cool, it works, thanks. Will there be a backport ? have fun Felix

Source diffs - Hywel Mallett - 2002-07-03

For those that want them, source diffs will shortly be available at http://www.hmallett.co.uk -- Hywel Mallett

Searching in KDE help center - James Marsh - 2002-07-03

What has happened to the useful htdig search of documentation using the helpcenter? I seem to remember it was available back in the KDE 2 days. I find the current help center hard to use. I hate hierarchical menus---especially the default Mandrake ones---as its never clear which category something should be in. I think one of the best features in kcontrol is the way you can type in keywords to find the relevant options. Anyway, this isn't a particular criticism - I think KDE3 has been excellent and am looking forward to installing this new release.

Re: Searching in KDE help center - Gene A. - 2003-03-30

1'st of all I like KDE, and it's getting better all the time. But, if you are ever gonna beat Microschaft, you must develop a context sensitive help system? Because dummies like me need it. It's way too hard to find anything with your current menu system. People like me need help with simple things like finding files, a simple way to install programs, and having the programs that are installed appear on the menu bar. I struggled to get the program installed, and now I can't find it. Sure you probably think I'm stupid, but I'm one of thousands or more who want to leave Windows, but I don't have the time to hack my way thru every obstacle that Linux presents. When you people have a Linux question, (and I know all of you do from time to time,) you just ask the person in the next room or wherever. But people like me are alone in our quest...... No one to ask....... And after a weekend of frustration, it's time to give up and go back to Windows again...... This is the 6'th time I have tried to get Linux to work for me... Can't you see? Sincerely, Gene

***AWSOME! A Solution for Redhat Users!!!*** - john - 2002-07-04

check out: http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ This guy kindly has compiled and uploaded rpm packages of kde 3.0.2 for redhat. If you run apt-get (check freshrpms.net if you don't) just add rpm http://www.math.unl.edu/linux/redhat/apt 7.2/$(ARCH) kde3 to your sources.list, then apt-get update/upgrade enjoy! *TONS* of thanks to Rex Dieter!

Re: ***AWSOME! A Solution for Redhat Users!!!*** - ac - 2002-07-04

I love smart people. They make everything so easy for me.

And it works, too! - ac - 2002-07-04

I just installed the RedHat RPMS and they work great! Plus, two of my most hated bugs are gone! (documents saved to the desktop were positioned below the bottom of the screen and dropdown menu arrow click area was way too small) The only odd thing is that my Keramik theme titlebar now looks more drab than it used to. Thanks Rex Dieter! I wanna have your babies!

Re: And it works, too! - Rex Dieter - 2002-07-05

You're welcome. (-:

Re: ***AWSOME! A Solution for Redhat Users!!!*** - David Herbert - 2002-07-06

Many thanks to Rex Dieter for the 3.0.2 binary RPMs from another RedHat user! I was beginning to think that switching to another distribution was the only way of getting the latest KDE made as binaries. I don't have the time to sit waiting while my system wades through compiling megabytes of source code, so binary RPMs are really important. There were some bugs in 3.0.0 like https not working in Konqueror and some cut and paste problems in the kmail editor which were annoying and had me looking out for an update.

God Bless you :) - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2002-07-10

Dear Rex Dieter, Thank you very much. it's people like you who make us feel good by helping others. thanks.

Re: ***AWSOME! A Solution for Redhat Users!!!*** - Cliff - 2002-07-13

Thank you very much from Germany! Great work! Cliff

Re: ***AWSOME! A Solution for Redhat Users!!!*** - mamagio - 2002-08-04

Caro Rex Dieter, (sorry if I don't speak english) tante grazie anche dall'Italia. Hai reso felice un altro RedHat dipendente. Saluti Mamagio Dear Rex, many tanks from Italy. You have be happy another RedHat user. Bye

Most hated bug #3 still here... - ac - 2002-07-04

Damn, not perfect yet! Tooltips STILL prevent you from clicking what's underneath them. Since they insist on popping up just as you're about to click, they should at least have the courtesy of being click-transparent! Other than that, though, very nice release.

Re: Most hated bug #3 still here... - JL Lanbo - 2002-07-04

Yes! That's really annoying... I end up turning off tooltips, but, then again, need them for programs I don't know what the icon is doing... I hope it get's fixed. BTW, where can you get the list you said of most hated bugs?

Re: Most hated bug #3 still here... - ac - 2002-07-04

Heh, the list I've been referencing is in my head ;-) However, we have a new candidate: Konqui filemanager can't follow symlinks to folders???

Re: Most hated bug #3 still here... - ac - 2002-07-05

Disregard the symlink "bug". Konqui can't follow symlinks to folders IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT PERMISSIONS. So, er, it's not really a bug. Well, maybe a "there could be a more descriptive error message", but that's splitting hairs. But that tooltip thing, THAT'S a real bug. Annoying bugger at that.

Re: Most hated bug #3 still here... - Joe - 2002-07-05

I too have disabled tooltips. I get the information I need in the status bar anyway. Most of the information in the tooltip is also in the status bar. The more I think about it I think tooltips for files should be disabled by default. At least make the delay longer, you should only get a tooltip when you really want a tooltip, not just when you move your mouse slowly over a bunch of files.

No antialias in SuSE-7.3 packages - Roope - 2002-07-04

The QT in this release, at least for SuSE-7.3 doesn't support antialiased fonts nor icons... Had to downgrade QT to the one that came with KDE-3.0 to get desktop back to it's normal glory.

Re: No antialias in SuSE-7.3 packages - Someone Else - 2002-07-05

This is because SuSE in all their glory decided to shut off Xft support in QT3 for all 7.3 users because there's a bug with it when used with XFree86 4.1. However, if you're one of the smarter ones and have upgraded to XFree86 4.2, there's no bug. But still, you're not given that option if you have 4.2, they packaged it without Xft support for all 7.3 users because of this. Packager is adrian@suse.de . If you have XFree86 4.2 and want anti-aliasing back, tell her! This makes no sense "punishing" everyone using 7.3 with a nasty-looking desktop just because of idiots who won't upgrade X. Who in the hell is upgrading KDE without upgrading X as well?

Re: No antialias in SuSE-7.3 packages - Adrian - 2002-07-06

This glory was enforced by people who are not reading READMEs, but are able to spam. More spam will not help anybody. And I am a him, newbie.

I have try it... - Murphy - 2002-07-04

Konqy is looking way faster in displaying web pages. But it still need 4 to 5 seconds to start (K6 550, 256Mb,Mandrake 8.2 + Mandrake package for 3.0.2). But there is still two big bugs that shows in the first minute of use. 1) When I click on the Konsole icon in the bar, the icon is "frozen" and can not be used anymore as long as the konsole programm is not closed (is it a mandrake bug??) 2) When I am using konqy as a file manager, I like to view the files with all the information (size, date, permission ...). In this mode, when I select several files and when I drag then to move then in another directory, the selection changes as I am "flying" over other files. This bug is just visual but terribly ugly. I think that it exists since (at least) Kde 2.0. The increase in speed for Konqy is a good new. I hope the project will continue in this direction.

Re: I have try it... - danny - 2002-07-04

>) When I click on the Konsole icon in the bar, the icon is "frozen" and can not be >used anymore as long as the konsole programm is not closed (is it a mandrake bug??) Yes that is (partly) a mandrake bug. Somebody was stupid enough to create a konsole-xft in kde 2.2.x and if you upgraded from kde 2.2 you still have that entry in the kicker panel. Kde3 doesn't have any konsole-xft so kicker has a problem. The KDE bug here is that kicker cannot handle this gracefully. change the entry into konsole and everything should be ok d

Re: I have tried it... - murphy - 2002-07-04

Thanks, it works. And for the other bug, have you an idea why it is still there? By the way, does someone know why 'alt F2' does not work any more?? Murphy

Re: I have try it... - Nick Betcher - 2002-07-05

Are you using GLibc 2.2.5? Objprelink isn't exactly perfect at times, and glibc 2.2.5 is a tad faster than it since it's a real solution. Be warned that upgrading to glibc 2.2.5 pretty much takes a completely new distro version to support it (unless you're really tricky).

Re: I have tried it... - murphy - 2002-07-05

Well, thanks for the advice but I am not very tricky. So I will wait for the next Mandrake...

new RedHat beta ships with KDE 3.0.2 ! - germain - 2002-07-04

The new Red Hat Beta (codename Limbo), which according to the release notes contains "the latest desktop technology" (no more details - tasty understatement ;-) is in fact bundled with a KDE 3.0.2 snapshot ! Read the full annouce here : http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-07-03-019-26-NW-RH-SW Kudos to Red Hat (and most probably to Bero) for this one G.

Re: new RedHat beta ships with KDE 3.0.2 ! - Rex Dieter - 2002-07-05

They're fibbing just a little. If you actually LOOK at the RPMS in the beta, you'll see they are still mostly 3.0.1. I'm sure they'll be fully updated to 3.0.2 for the next beta/release though...

Debian Pkgs - Sam - 2002-07-04

I can't wait for the debian packages to come out in 2005!

Re: Debian Pkgs - Debian user - 2002-07-05

Or, how about you stop being an idiot, and start looking at http://calc.cx/kde.txt? These packages have been out since just before 3.0.1, and are even announced on DebianPlanet. Before you bitch and moan (just like dep) about it not being in sid, the maintainer chose not to upload them to save people like yourself the trouble of a fucked-up upgrade.

Re: Debian Pkgs - gibby - 2002-07-05

Do you know when it will be officially ported to sid? Dave

Re: Debian Pkgs - Nick Betcher - 2002-07-05

When hell freezes over.

Re: Debian Pkgs - Anti Troll - 2002-07-09

Hmm...Last I checked, the KDE team provided packages of text, which most of us would call Source tarballs! (You may have heard of them. Judging from many posts here, not many KDE users have, but I could very well be wrong, and hope that I am :) ) So, what you could do is stop trolling and BUILD YOUR OWN! Hell, people may actually start taking you seriously if you do. Hmm...What a concept!

KDE rules! - Jon - 2002-07-05

With all the people out there who bash KDE flaming on and on, I'd like to take a second to express my sincere appreciation to all the KDE developers. KDE rules thanks to all you guys. You have given us *nix users a truly powerful and unique gift. I'll never use Gnome or MS Windows again... I mean that! Keep on rockin'... you ARE appreciated! Jonathan Graham Linux User since 1999

Re: KDE rules! - Justin Hibbits - 2002-07-09

I second this! Although I don't use KDE (and probably never will again (don't ask, plz)), I do appreciate all the work that has gone into the DE. The environment is clean and polished, even though I do think some work could be done to speed things up (probably more on troll-tech's end tho). Keep up the good work, I reccommend this to anyone who is switching to Linux :)

Xinerama bugs still present. - Jared - 2002-07-05

Tried out 3.0.2 but it still has major xinerama bugs. The panel doesn't freeze straight away anymore, but it does freeze after any of the buttons are clicked and the kde control center still wont run in xinerama mode. These a major bugs and they should have been fixed by the second maintenance release. Poor effort people! If these bugs aren't fixed by the time the next generation of distributions comes out with kde3 then kde could lose its entire xinerama userbase.

Re: Xinerama bugs still present. - Moritz Moeller-Herrmann - 2002-07-05

> Poor effort people! Maybe do something about it: Donate graphic cards and screens to your favorite KDE developer. Or even better, look at the problem yourself. Do some debugging. You didn't even post a _detailed_ bug report.

Re: Xinerama bugs still present. - Thomas Mayer - 2002-09-21

True... but it's not like it's hard to reproduce... try running control center with dual monitors or konsole... they will not run. Windows don't repaint and apps behave strangely... would be nice to get a fix... pleeeeaassee

Re: Xinerama bugs still present. - halux - 2002-07-05

I saw a xinerama entry for kde 3.1. From the feature list: Xinerama configuration module and more correct support, George Staikos and others At the moment red (in kdelibs). have fun Felix

Re: Xinerama bugs still present. - Nick Betcher - 2002-07-05

Although it's red, I think he is working on it as we speak. If I'm not mistaken there were some more Xinerama fixes just committed in the last few days.

Re: Xinerama bugs still present. - Aaron J. Seigo - 2002-07-05

thanks to puetzk putting in the necessary efforts and others helping him test and debug it under various circumstances, kicker is now xinerama aware, functional and safe.

why so different distributions? - costing - 2002-07-05

looking on ftp.kde.org for binary packages i noticed that every version is available for totally different distributions: 3.0.0 : FreeBSD, Irix, RedHat, YellowDog 3.0.1 : Gentoo, Slackware, Solaris, Turbo 3.0.2 : Conectiva, Mandrake, SuSE, Tru64 is there a reason for this? every version makes some (few) people happy, but eventually everybody will be happy (at least once :) ). rigth now i'm not quite happy, i'll have to spend at least a day compiling the latest version ... :| .costin

Re: why so different distributions? - Nick Betcher - 2002-07-05

Because the binary packagers aren't always available to package for each distro, so some distros (and other OS's) suffer at certain times. If you know how to package, become an official package manager for KDE... help out! :)

Re: why so different distributions? - Aaron J. Seigo - 2002-07-05

kde releases source, vendors release binaries. each distribution/vendor (or their userbase) is responsible for providing binaries for their platform. not all distributions build binaries for every revision release. if you don't like how your vendor is handling this, get in touch with them and/or help build packages for that platform.

What about one LSB-package in the near future? - Maarten Romerts - 2002-07-05

Over about a few months the first distubutions come out wich will follow the LSB-moddel (LSB = Linux Standard Base). Soon all major distibution will follow. At that time there is no need four al those differen binarys. Perhaps it might be a good idea for KDE to put out their own version, based on standard LSB-rpm's.

Re: why so different distributions? - dwyip - 2002-07-05

Small correction -- Gentoo is on the 3.0.2 release as of, oh, yesterday. Gotta love source-based package systems :)

Re: why so different distributions? - micha - 2002-07-06

SuSE has always packages ... check your list ..

Re: why so different distributions? - Anonymous - 2002-07-06

I guess he didn't see SuSE packages for 3.0[.1] because they were removed from FTP to save space.

I don't mean to sound stupid but... - ac - 2002-07-08

How do you change the default browser in KDE? The reason I'm asking is that I just switched from Mozilla mail to KMail because KMail understands my file associations. However, I still prefer Mozilla to Konqueror for regular web browsing. When I click on a link in a KMail message it used to open Konqueror. I switched the file association for text/html to Mozilla, and now the link KINDA opens in Mozilla--but not entirely. Mozilla opens of a cached copy of the link on the local drive, not the actual link! And if the site serves cookies, Konqueror asks me if I want to accept/reject the cookies before Mozilla even tries to do anything. Somehow I think I'm missing something. Can anyone help?

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - Asif Ali Rizwaan - 2002-07-10

Just right-click on any html file and choose 'edit file types' there you can move mozilla up. or more easy will be to 'when opening an html file' choose 'open with' and choose 'mozilla' if not present enter the 'mozilla' command and click on 'remember file association'

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - Kjetil Kjernsmo - 2002-10-22

Hm, I did just that, mozilla is on top, but still, I see the behaviour described in the parent post... I must admit that I've tweaked it a bit, it says mozilla -remote openURL(%u,new-tab) & it is _really_ important that it opens in a new tab... Preferably, what it should do is to open mozilla if it isn't allready running, if it is running, open in a new tab. I guess a shell script is needed to achieve that, anybody got something like that?

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - Jesse D. Guardiani - 2003-01-04

I just wrote such a script this very night! It's written in Perl, and it simply strips the single quote characters from the beginning and end of the %u input string that KDE calls mozilla with. I named it: kdeLoadMozilla And it can be called with the following syntax: kdeLoadMozilla %u new-window or kdeLoadMozilla %u new-tab Instant mozilla satisfaction! Let me know if you still want it.

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - Jesse D. Guardiani - 2003-02-13

I've decided to make this script available for download via anonymous FTP. You can get it here: ftp.wingnet.net/pub/scripts/kde/kdeLoadMozilla Enjoy!

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - Nacs - 2003-04-07

Thanks!

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - Brian - 2003-05-02

When you set up the command for KMail to run in your file association, simply put: /usr/bin/mozilla -remote "openurl(%u,new-tab)" The openurl thing needs to be in quotes to work. Hope this helps.

Re: I don't mean to sound stupid but... - mick - 2003-09-16

The link given above seems to be down. Here's a solution using the script : #!/bin/sh MOZILLA="/opt/MozillaFirebird/bin/MozillaFirebird" if $MOZILLA -remote "ping()" 2>/dev/null then echo "Mozilla already launch" location=",new-tab" exec $MOZILLA -remote "openURL($1$location)" else exec $MOZILLA "$@" fi exit 1 Change MOZILLA acording to your need. Then put this in your file associations : /path/to/fire.sh %u Mick

URGH.. confusing - mario - 2002-08-07

I am running Red Hat 7.3, I'm having a horable time getting my DVD drive to work and my flakey sound. I'm a windows convert. Please dont bash me. Least I'm trying here to get away from Microsoft. These packages are totaly confusing.. Cant they make a single installer to upgrade? This package wants that installed first.. OIE... I'm trying but its just so cryptic. Please help me!!!