KC KDE #44 is Up
Saturday, 19 October 2002 | Zrusin
Kernel Cousin KDE is back! Issue #44 is now up, featuring everything from a summary of KMail developments to Qt GStreamer bindings, Kopete news and much more. Grab it here.
Comments:
How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, etc - Adam Treat - 2002-10-19
How will the GStreamer bindings gel with KDE's current multimedia framework and applications? The KC mentioned that a KVideoWidget was on the way and that older apps could be easily ported? Any more news on this? Any progress? Could someone involved with the multimedia stuff give an overview how GStreamer relates to the current crop of multimedia tools and applications in KDE? Specifically, how would GStreamer impact Xine/arts/noatun? Is it an either/or? I understand that GStreamer is meant as a complete framework alla Apples QuickTime. GNOME'ers are really pushing GStreamer, so I'd like to know what the KDE multimedia people think of all this ;) Thanks!
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, etc - Charles Samuels - 2002-10-19
KVideoWidget integrates with aRts (and its applications Noatun & Kaboodle). GStreamer is not used anywhere in KDE.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, etc - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-19
<i>How will the GStreamer bindings gel with KDE's current multimedia framework and applications?</i> Not at all, apps would need to be rewritten in order to use it. Right now I am not porting or writing any apps for it because I have enough to do until at least 3.2. I am going to maintain it and try to keep it in sync with the GStreamer stable releases though. In 9 months or so, when KDE 3.2 is out and GStreamer reached 0.5 (the version intended to ship with Gnome), I hope to find the time to do a few projects with it.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Peter.Q - 2002-10-21
As to my understanding, GStreamer has a _much_ broader target than yust a VideoWidget. It can do for video what aRts can do for audio. It would be invaluable, if I could install a new video codec once in the ControlCenter (or GNOME equivalent) and all video application would know about it. This an be true with GStreamer, and not only codecs, but also effects. Can somebody with insight comment on if we are gonna get a division in the codec world as we already have one in the GUI world? It would be a pitty. Cheers, Peter
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-21
There are two ways to share codecs between KDE and Gnome: either both DEs use the same framework, or both have their own media frameworks and somebody comes up with a generic codec format. MCF's Transor API seems to aim at offering a common codec format (with a C++ interface). It doesn't solve the problem that there is no media framework for KDE though... Right now KDE's MM development is pretty sleepy.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Julien Olivier - 2002-10-21
> It doesn't solve the problem that there is no media framework for KDE > though... Sorry but I don't understand. Why do you say there is no media framework for KDE ? Isn't ARTS a multimedia framework ? I mean it can handle sound formats (mp3,ogg,wav...) as well as video formats (DIVX,AVI,MPEG...). So what exactly is missing in ARTS to make it a media framework ?
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Peter.Q - 2002-10-21
Could you point me to some documentation to all these aRts features? The latest "news" on http://www.arts-project.org is from November 01. The "new" Handbook says video is a "planed" feature. Where is aRts development going on? There was a big kde-multimedia pow-wow in January, but I have not heard of any results. If I missed them, where can I find them? Using aRts as a video framework, which kind of codec format is supported? Do I have to recompile aRts to support a new file format? Which file formats are supported? Which codecs are supported? I would be really interested in some links. Thanx a lot, Peter
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Julien Olivier - 2002-10-21
Well, in fact I downloaded KDE 3.1 Beta 2 and compiled it myself. When I had it compiled, I found that I could use kaboodle to read my videos, very simply. I'm pretty sure that ARTS in CVS has XINE plugin, which enables ARTS (and thus kaboodle and noatun) to play any video that is supported by XINE (so DIVX, DVD, MPG etc...). The only webpage I found about xine plugin for arts is http://rambo.its.tudelft.nl/~ewald/xine/ but it seems dead currently.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Peter.Q - 2002-10-21
Thanx, your link works for me. So, is this a hack or will this become the official way KDE will go? (In case there has been a decission about this at all.) Cheers, Peter
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-21
Arts does not support transporting video over its pipelines, the Xine plugin can only be used for playback. This is not sufficient for recording, converting, applying filters (like effects or de-interlacing)... In other words, you can not use Arts to write a TV recorder, a video editor, a video converter, a video conferencing system, video mail recorder, video broadcasting and so on...
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Peter.Q - 2002-10-21
How are chances KDE will adopt GStreamer? Is there some other solution in the race? Cheers, Peter
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - AC - 2002-10-21
Sorry to tell you this but GStreamer is far from going anywhere. It's buggy, incomplete and slowly developed. Not to mention that even under GNOME it fails all the time. aRts is working correctly so far so why do you want to have it replaced. I fear the idea to see KDE mature more and more towards GNOME.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Peter.Q - 2002-10-21
I don't give a sh*t is KDE is going towards GNOME or away from it. I just want a working multimedia environment. If that is GStreamer, ok. If it is aRts, I am happy. Right now, there is nothing working. Cheers, Peter
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - AC - 2002-10-21
Well sorry to pop your bubbles then. aRts is the first real working multimedia framework that i came along. It is your own fault if you can't handle or setup your system correctly. If you have that much problems then you should consider buying a Distro and obtain 60days Customers help with it too. These people may help you getting your hardware set up correctly.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Peter.Q - 2002-10-21
What crack are you smoking man?
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Stof - 2002-10-22
He's an anti-GNOME troll. If you look in the other articles, it's always him who flames GNOME down without valid arguments. Ignore him.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - AC - 2002-10-23
Hehehe what kind of Troll. Post shit here and then comes back and let it look like it's someone else. Stof you are a long history known Flamer. You, Aged Person and so on are probably the same sick insane persons.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Stof - 2002-10-23
If I am Aged Person I would be flaming at GNOME.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - AC - 2002-10-23
You are a general Flamer. No matter what Desktop.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Stof - 2002-10-23
Find me a post where I'm actively flaming down GNOME or KDE.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Stof - 2002-10-26
Yes, NOW you're suddenly quiet.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - shm - 2002-10-21
> Why do you say there is no media framework for KDE ? aRts is an analog synthesizer and soundserver. Gstreamer is a development framework for creating things like media players, audio editors, video editors, streaming broadcasts, etc.. It can use Arts as it's sound server. Gstreamer and aRts sound like a perfect pair. gstreamer is simply just one abstraction layer above aRts, and would enable applications like noatun to process much more than they do now.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, etc - Fredrik C - 2002-10-21
The initial reaction(2001) from the arts developers when gstreamer was announced in this thread: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-multimedia&m=97923203709340&w=2 Quite sad.
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, etc - Fredrik C - 2002-10-23
Just saw an uplifting thread, seems as the tone has changed. http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-multimedia&m=103536600426123&w=2
Re: How do the GStreamer bindings fit with Noatun, - Chris Parker - 2002-10-22
It would be great if there were KDE wrappers for GStreamer. I am using GStreamer right now and it provides pretty much a full multimedia framework out of the box that *just works*.
transparency - me - 2002-10-19
hi does anybody know the details of why mouse cursors can have transparency and other things (like windows) can not? Or does XCursor use this fake transparency (taking screenshots etc.)? If yes, wouldn't that be awfully slow? thanks!
Re: transparency - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-19
Because cursors and windows are almost completely unrelated.
Re: transparency - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-20
Mouse cursors are guaranteed to always be on top of every window, so supporting them is easier.
Re: transparency - Rayiner Hashem - 2002-10-21
Modern hardware provides special support for cursors. The cursor is quite seperate from windows, so it was relatively easy to support HW-acceleration for it without changing major internals of the protocol.
Gamma display - Alain - 2002-10-19
The new "physical display" screen in the KDE Control Center is interesting. It would be fair that it also includes the gamma correction, so that it turns unuseful to always launch KDE with "startx -- -gamma 1.5", for example.
Re: Gamma display - ealm - 2002-10-21
Until then, why don't you just put it in your .xinitrc. Ie, this is my config: #!/bin/bash xgamma -gamma 1.4 & xset m 40/10 & exec openbox
Re: Gamma display - Melchior FRANZ - 2002-10-21
The default gamma setting should ideally be placed in the monitor secion in /etc/X11/XF86Config! e.g: Section "Monitor"|...|Gamma 1.5|EndSection. You can also set gamma values for each color (RGB) separately. See the XFree docs.
Re: Gamma display - Alain - 2002-10-21
If resolution and depth are in the KDE ControlCenter, I think it is also the place of the gamma correction... If I use KDE, it is not to go in the files of /etc or in .xinitrc (however, while waiting better, I will modify it, thank you ealm). A KDE user generally prefers to find such a parameter in the control center, of course...
Re: Gamma display - Melchior FRANZ - 2002-10-22
Sure, it's more convenient for beginners not to touch "dangerous" files like /etc/X11/XF86Config, and if you are using KDE =only= and have just =one= monitor, then you can certainly get away with using xgamma or a KDE config module. But nevertheless: the gamma value is a highly monitor specific value that should be set correctly for each monitor, but should be used for all accounts. That's the job of the admin, and it is done in the XFree config. The gamma value is nothing that you will change every other day, so I can't see why firing up vi is such a problem -- except for Lindows users and Linux newbies, of course. ;-)
Re: Gamma display - Alain - 2002-10-23
Ir seems that you understand few things about the end users. I don't need to call an administrator, I am the user-administrator of my PC. Many such user-administrators don't know how to modify config files, they search in the KDE Control Center... (and no, they are not newbies, they only don't want to become experts). The many end users who are not self administrators also search in the KDE Control Center. It is the right place of a such parameter. Yes, I don't change the gamma value every day, as the resolution and the depth. However, with KuickShow, I may change the gamma parameter as I want, I don't call an administrator ! Is it logical to allow the end user to change the gamma correction in one program and not for all ? In Windows, the graphic card driver allows anybody to change the gamma correction (in advanced properties of display, so in the config panel = Windows Control Center), and you, you want to forbid it on KDE !! Believe me, when you have a monitor too dark, it is VERY important to change the gamma correction. For ANYBODY.
Re: Gamma display - Melchior FRANZ - 2002-10-27
> Is it logical to allow the end user to change the gamma correction in one program and not for all ? The gamma value isn't there to fix broken images. If they are too dark, then you are supposed to brighten them up. (Using "b" in kuickshow, for example.) But there's still xgamma, anyway. > [...] you want to forbid it on KDE !! Oh, dear. No! Who am I to forbid bloat ... err. I mean features. But seriously, you are right: On desktop systems there often is no admin at all, and today's users are often unable and unwilling to read and understand the numerous docs. I'm just worried that you are misusing the gamma value and encouraging others to do so. ;-)
Re: Gamma display - Qazz - 2003-12-19
I have a question too, about the gamma. My monitor is extremely dark. I am now using a stupid 14 "monitor, cause it is the only one i have witch can produce a normal bright vision. But i really wanna use my normal 17 "monitor. Believe me, i'm no newbie or something like that, i know windows 98 as the palm of my hand, and i know for sure, that i can't change the gamma value. My graphics card just can't. So i've been searching the interent, to find a program that can adjust my gamma, but i can't find it. I've used a program called "adobe gamma"beforem to brighten up my vision :p but i can't find it anymore. Is there someone who knows a program to adjust the gamma, please tell me where to download it. Cause looking at a 14" monitor really gives you bad eyes. ( everything is so small :P:P)... please help me...;) -Qazz-
Re: Gamma display - Gunnar Gulstad - 2004-02-17
Hi! I'm struggling with far too bright screen image and gamma value. I'm using Kde 3.2.0, Xfree86 4.3, and ATI Radeon 7500 all-in-wonder, HP71 monitor. When starting xdm with parameters like "xdm -- :1 -gamma 0.2" gamma value seems to be ok set to 0.2. When starting up kdm using default values from Xf86config (or kgammarc), then gamma seems to be set to 0.4, regardless of what value is put in Xf86config or kgammarc. Why is gamma limited downwards to 0.4 in kgamma? Does anyone now how I can force gamma to e.g. 0.2 when using kdm/kde? Thanks! Gunnar
Re: Gamma display - Gunnar Gulstad - 2004-04-03
Just figured out that if S-VHS TV-out is disconnected during boot, the gamma value is set coorectly. So this problem is related to the radeon drivers in X11. This was also mentioned in http://forum.gentoo.org. Regards, Gunnar
XRandR - Luciano - 2002-10-19
I am very pelased that RandR support is already planned for KDE. But from the control panel, it seems that the resolution must be used for all the virtual desktops. I would really like to select a different resolution/depth per virtual desktop, as I am able to do with the Amiga. Having multiple desktop is handy, but having them at different resolution is perfect. Games, for example, are typically better at lower resolution, while sometimes, I'd like to look at the pictures of my digital camera at their full resolution, which is not comfortable to look at for long.
Re: XRandR - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-20
That is no longer the case with the latest version (Jim included per-screen support and I've added that to my stuff too); I just need someone to test it...
Re: XRandR - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-20
Oops, you said virtual desktops ;) That's on my to-do list now.
Re: XRandR - Luciano - 2002-10-21
Well, I called them 'virtual desktops' because that's the name under X... Although they are just called screens in Amiga jargon.
Different set of icons per desktops - Alain - 2002-10-20
> I would really like to select a different resolution/depth per virtual desktop, Is'nt it more important to have real different virtual desktops, with a different set of icons for each one ? Also, for Kicker, a different set of icons per desktops in the Lancher applet would be very fine...
Re: Different set of icons per desktops - ik - 2002-10-20
and i'd like to have different kicker settings per desktop (like on desktop 4, kicker rolled up ...)
Re: Different set of icons per desktops - Alain - 2002-10-20
The more I use my computer for different tasks, the more I use the virtual desktops. I have the one called Internet-Office, the one called Photos, the one called Songs, the one called FTP, the one called Tasks, the one called Windows (win4lin)... Each desktop has its function, has its taskbar, its colour, and needs its set of icons (on the desktop and in Kicker). Each desktop needs to become independant, to become a computer, so that I will have several computers in one... I think it's very important for a personnal computer, and here Linux may have a good advantage on Windows and Mac... (another nice improvement would be to have the content of the preview Desktop applet when typing Ctrl Tab)
Updated XRandR screenies - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-20
Get 'em here: <a href="http://yoyo.its.monash.edu.au/~meddie/patches/screenshots/">http://yoyo.its.monash.edu.au/~meddie/patches/screenshots/</a> <p> This is now in kdenonbeta/kcmrandr, and works like a charm with the latest XFree86 CVS.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Navindra Umanee - 2002-10-20
Ahh man, Keramik is so beautiful. :-)
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Someone - 2002-10-20
Yeah but the fonts really suck ! I wonder if Linux will ever have decent fonts one day ! sigh !
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - ako - 2002-10-20
fonts are probably ok, but look bad because of compression
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Richard - 2002-10-21
Uh, I run antialiased fonts and they look just beautiful. They're a cinch to set up too... KDE supports them and all...
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - mike ta - 2002-10-20
Am I alone in the Universe, or does at least one other person think that Keramic is awful? The extra sized current-table is a waste of space, the combo boxes really suck, and the default button decoration looks like something produced by three year old who hasn't quite mastered the use of scissors yet?
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Echo6 - 2002-10-20
no you are not the only one, there are 1 or 2 more :) Personaly I think it is cool.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - KDE User - 2002-10-21
Agreed. But no big deal, because you're not forced to use it. I use the fantastic Hicolor KDE default in the 3.1 beta.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Shamyl Zakariya - 2002-10-21
Yes, I'm with you too. I can't bear keramic, for widgets or windows. But, that's why we have options, right? I happen to think light3 is the bee's knees. My personal opinion is that we need a fast, light but very graphically high quality 2-D style, something like _Web_, but easier on the eyes. No bevels, no shadows. I was intending to write such a style when I wrote the kwin KMUltra decor a few months ago -- MKUltra was going to be the accompanying window style. But, too much *real* work to do ;)
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Peter - 2002-10-20
Great work! Thanks for that. I'm really looking forward to the next XFree release. Is there already a timeframe for it?
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - ik - 2002-10-20
in the KC its said changing depth is also supported. that seems to be an error.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Bluewolf - 2002-10-20
Changing depth is allready supported by xfree, (don't know about the KControl plugin) and it has for a while. ALT-CTRL-+
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Janne - 2002-10-20
"Changing depth is allready supported by xfree, (don't know about the KControl plugin) and it has for a while. ALT-CTRL-+" Ummmmm, no. I believe that by "depth" he was referring to the color-palette (8/16/32bit). And the Alt-Ctrl-+/- doesn't change that. Heck, it doesn't even change the resolution! it changes the size of the displayed desktop, but it's not the same as changing resolution. For example, open windows are not scaled to the new resolution.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Corba the Geek - 2002-10-21
Not really. CTRL_ALT_+ and CTRL_ALT_- are more like "zoom" functions. They change the physical resolution of the screen but do not change any other properties such as size of the desktop... So if you have a 1280x1024 desktop and hit CTRL_ALT_- until you get to 640x480 you are left with a small window on to your desktop in which everything is really large - large fonts, large window borders etc. If you move the mouse outside of the window the screen will scroll to show you a different part of the desktop. It is really more like an "accessibilty" feature than anything provide by "Rotate and Resize".
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-21
It was supported in earlier revisions for TinyX, but to get this to mainline they had to drop it...
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - John Herdy - 2002-10-20
First of all thanks for your great work on KDE. The physical screen setting is something that is important for KDE/Linux, because newbies have no idea how to configure X by hand. I hope you don't mind if I make two suggestions: - add the 1280x960 to the available resolutions. 1280x960 is a 4x3-resolution (like 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960, 1600x1200). You have 1280x1024 in your options which isn't a 4x3-resolution (but some people like it so it's good that it's available). - add a color-bitrate-setting to the available options. I saw on your screenshot that only 85 Hz is available in the "Refresh rate"-section. Is this a setting you can adjust or is this information about the current setting. If it's the latter I have to add a third suggestion to the list: - add a refresh-rate-setting to the available options.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-21
No probs, I like smallish projects like this, and it's nice to get a mention on Slashdot ;) (though people say I wasn't first, they're wrong, I had this working (albeit with TinyX) in January - but it's a moot point anyway). However you should understand that most of the work was done by Jim Gettys and others. The resolutions I can offer depend on what the driver supports; I just list them all. I had to use the vesa driver for development; the nvidia open source driver has a bug, and the binary driver doesn't work for me with the latest X cvs. So, if your card/driver can support it, it will be listed. The pixel depth is not implemented in the X extension due to difficulties in implementation. If you need this, run TinyX/kdrive. I also do my development on a laptop, so I can't change refresh rates ;) Again, if your card/monitor/driver supports it, you should be able to.
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - David Bishop - 2002-10-24
Well, that isn't quite how it works, as X is fantastic in supporting not only the "standard" resolutions, like 800x600, 1024x768, et. al, but also the weird ones, like 1152x864 (I have a fixed freq. monitor that only ran at that), or 800x400 (widescreen monitor, don't ask), or whatever else you can think of. Just try it! (Not on your laptop, of course ;-). What I'm saying is, have the "defaults" listed is wonderful, and definetly the right way to do it, but there is also a definite *need* for being able to manually enter the resolution. Might I suggest some sort of "Advanced" button? Anyways, thanks for all the hard work. D.A.Bishop
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Hamish Rodda - 2002-10-25
The protocol doesn't allow entering just any dimensions :(
Re: Updated XRandR screenies - Chakie - 2002-10-21
Those shots sure look excellent, and I'm not talking themes or fonts here, but funtionality.
Popup arrows - Jiffy - 2002-10-22
Is it just me, or does the popup have the left and right arrows backwards? Also, for flipping vertically and horizontally, I would recommend using an arrow with points on both ends (e.g. <--> flip horizontally).
TYPO - ac - 2002-10-22
Er, this seems to be a common English translation issue, and it's on the screenshots: "Anticlockwise" should be "Counterclockwise" *It's possible that "anticlockwise" is a regional variation that I don't know about, but I've only heard this word spoken by Germans before, so I think some German/English dictionary somewhere is responsible for this word.
Re: TYPO - Richard Moore - 2002-10-23
Anti-clockwise is a very common english usage in.... England! Rich.
Re: TYPO - ac - 2002-10-23
Thanks, Dang. Next you're going to tell me I'm using the word "hopefully" wrong ;-) Sorry to be an ugly American. I have seriously never heard the word spoken by a native English speaker. Won't happen again. Promise!
Facilities of the XCursor extension - Richard Moore - 2002-10-20
Does anyone know if it is possible to use this extension to discover the current cursor pixmap? that would be useful for ksnapshot. Rich.
Re: Facilities of the XCursor extension - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-20
... and for Desktop Sharing as well...
Colour Depth? - Dave - 2002-10-20
Can the new X extension support changing colour depth on the fly also? Seems a very bad move if not, like doing half a job.
Re: Colour Depth? - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-21
Not yet, as far as I know. Changing the color depth is MUCH more difficult. Applications that are not prepared that the depth may change while the app is running, so the X server must emulate their old depth (yes, this also means that a application may become slower after changing the depth).
Re: Colour Depth? - Datschge - 2002-10-21
Wouldn't that be quite "easy" to fix? Eg. a new QT version would have support for additional features and you'd only need to recompile your applications to use the newer QT version? I heard something like this is going to happen with xft2 and QT 3.1 (to be included in KDE 3.1).
Re: Colour Depth? - Tim Jansen - 2002-10-21
Yes, but it wouldn't help for all those apps that don't use Qt. Every toolkit needs to be rewritten, and each app that uses native X11 calls. And each app that uses a statically linked toolkit needs to be rebuild (including a lot commercial, binary-only software).
Re: Colour Depth? - jsantos - 2002-10-21
Well, If you want to go forward, you have to break some of the old stuff. If QT can be adapted to depth changes, that means that all kde apps will work. That is a lot. Then you have gtk, it probably can be adapted quickly. That leaves out about 20% of the apps only. If they become slower (in some cases) no big deal. This reminds me of kernel developement. Kernel people don't care if binary drivers break because of a change. I think it is a good policy.
The Cure - Robert Smith - 2002-10-22
http://tinyurl.com/253o some konqueror flamery.
Re: The Cure - Stof - 2002-10-23
http://slashdot.org/ some Nautilus flamery. Relax, both camps are getting flamed...