KOffice developers have added a
number of templates to KSpread, while work
towards Excel compatibility continues. KStars now has a telescope hardware interface.
The KWin and KDesktop fine-tuning continues, as well as the work on implementing freedesktop.org standards. Read it all in the latest KDE-CVS-Digest.
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Aha, I forgot that developer.kde.org is in a seperate module from kde-www, which is controlled by ACL's. Perhaps this'll give me a reason to use my kde-cvs account for the first time in about a year :)
Those snapshots aren't daily and not weekly either, they are more like unstable development releases.
It might be that GNOME is progressing faster at the moment but you have to set this in relation with KDE beeing much more "mature" (as in finished) already. When the KDE 2/3 platform was new and fresh, KDE progress was insanely fast. :)
And while I like GNOME much better (usability, looks and everything :)) and think that a few GNOME applications are really more advanced, there is no denying that the KDE desktop is more complete at this point.
Given that these snapshots aren't even weekly, it doesn't look like GNOME is progressing fast at all compared to KDE.
Well comparing changelogs and CVS commits isn't objective either.
They are daily, there has been more than one and it is released after a specific amount of time. The changes in the latest snapshot seem to be almost as big as KDE 3.1.2 to CVS now.
Anyway, like I said that was my opinion, don't take it like a fact.
The changes in the latest snapshot are bigger than the changes from KDE 3.1 to KDE CVS?? What are you talking about? From the link you have provided this is clearly not true. Have you even read it? It's mostly a bunch bugfixes and translations.
Do you want to see the new and improved apps KDE has had since KDE 3.1? Look at http://apps.kde.com/ and you will be amazed.
I was reffering only to the changes from KDE 3.1.x to the current CVS now which does not include applications outside of the KDE package you get by default.
In addition, I meant to say that the combined changes from the last two GNOME snapshos seem to be greater than the ones KDE has.
Check it out:
http://gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=1046
http://gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=1112
In addition, by 2.6 GNOME will also have a lot fo new and improved applications. Most, applications will also be GTk 2 and a substantial amount will be HIG compliant.
Here are a few examples:
Galeon 2
GIMP 1.4
Abiword 2
Evolution 2
Red Carpet 2
GNUCash 2
Pan GTK 2
Sodipodi GTK 2
Anjuta GTK 2
and that doesen't include commercial applications like Moho and only scratches the surface. As you cans ee, by KDE 3.2 and GNOME 2.6 KDE might not be ahead anymore, especially if it doesen't catch up on usability.
It took till GNOME 2.****6**** for these GNOME1 applications to be ported to GNOME2 and you are using this as proof that GNOME is progressing faster than KDE? That's just trolling or pure ignorance IMHO.
The problem with Gnome, and the main reason for me to start using KDE instead was the fact that all Gnome-programs are terribly overestimated when it comes to completeness/stability. They write things like: "Oh this is _THE_ blah blah app for Linux" when in fact it is far from usable. Oh, GIMP is one app that _IS_ working good, but then again, it's not a Gnome app, maybe that's why it delivers what they promise on webpages.
Maybe this has changed but I hardly believe so. When using RedHat 8 it just looks as if they removed everything that didn't work. And what is left? Well, not much to be honest. They can say whatever they want about usability, because they don't really seem to know what they're talking about, that's what happens when hackers do usability.
Be honest, you never looked at KDE's current CVS, did you?
Actually a mature project would have a smaller changelog, no?
Derek
OMG OMG OMG, this whole thread is the most pathetic thing I've seen in a long time.
Granted the GNOME change logs are more detailled than KDE's because of GNOME's structure with many packages and many responsible maintainers and the more cathedral-like development. KDE even fails to produce complete bugfix change logs from e.g. 3.1.1 to 3.1.2.
Well than it amy very well be that KDE's development is faster, but if there ar eno detailed change logs, who would know or who could back up their claims. IMO things such as changelogs are almost as important as the changes themeselves. If I don't know what changed I will assumue that the annoying bug I hate is still ther and might use something else. THis goes for documentation too, IMo even if you have the best tools in the world, if the documentation sucks and no one knows how to use them what good is it.
Also, some of you mention that GNOME has companies working for it as a bad thing. Since that happened usability is actually good in GNOME and so is acessibility.
Check this out ona cessibilty: http://gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=1111&mode=thread&order=0&thold=1
BTW: I do not know how to update the documentation ro have the skills to do so, its just that I looked throuhgh it a bit and noticed it was mostly from 2000-2 or older.
For KDE the places to look for
*code changes and additions: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-cvs
*bugs and done bugfixes: http://bugs.kde.org/
*missing and done translations: http://i18n.kde.org/
Everything else are mostly summarizings and overviews which are necessarily omitting a lot of info so people can and will actually read it and possibly even enjoy doing so.
And the date when a documentation has been updated the last time doesn't say anything about how accurate the information still is. (In times immemorial API stability was a great thing, heh.)
>>Well than it amy very well be that KDE's development is faster, but if there ar eno detailed change logs, who would know or who could back up their claims. IMO things such as changelogs are almost as important as the changes themeselves.<<
Have you seen any changelog for commercial DEs like Windows or MacOS?
Beside that, IMO the length of the Gnome changelog shows how slow their progress it. KDE's changelog would be *much* longer. Check out kde-cvs, there are up to 10000 changes per month (on everything, including documentation and the web sites, and also backports). Realistically you would get maybe 500 changelog entries every month if you document each minor change, like Gnome does, and 5000 for a release. Would you really want to read through such a monster?
When talking about being 'User Friendly', take a look at the GTK2/Gnome filedialog v.s. KDEs.
http://reviewed.homelinux.org/screenshots/kde-vs-gtk2/no/gtk2-filedialog...
v.s.
http://reviewed.homelinux.org/screenshots/kde-vs-gtk2/no/kde-quanta-file...
It is obvious what dialog box works better. It really bugs me when using a GTK2 application (which, in fact, quite often are more powerfull and developed. GTK2 ownez, look at Gnumeric, Gimp, etc) is that many simple, shared parts actually are quite useless. In short, then suck bigtime.
KDE lacks the power-apps GTK2 has. But the framework is much more amazeing. (And I see no advantage at all of running these from Gnome v.s. running them through my favourite desktop: KDE)
Now uninstall mozilla from your system ..
I realize KDE volunteers are more attracted to "cool" features (since the pay is so high:) and I think the KDE team is doing some really great stuff, even setting the standards for new and future programming techniques (that's why I read this page), but I'm afraid some really great work might go wasted if some basic userability isn't incorporated more.
For example, how about a survey page for what features are really most needed or desired by users? How about a feedback page like this for each major component - if I'm trying to use KNode and it doesn't meet my needs where do I post something? (and please, not mailing lists - which most regular business people don't want to deal with)
For many of us business types, KDE-PIM would be a critical app but it needs lots of fixes to be ready for prime-time or even for many of us leading edge types to use. For instance, the address book main interface: only 3 phone nos are listed but for normal business use 4 are really needed: office, fax, cell, home. And in the main view side panel (which is a very nice layout) phone nos. are constantly cut-off so that the dialog view is totally useless. And since many of us are Palm users, the Palm synching is still badly, badly broken (my latest attempt to use the synch in 3.1.1 under Suse 8.2 did okay I think with addresses, but only copied some of the notes, would not synch the to-dos or date appointments. This is mission critical stuff for business people - less is okay but almost on a lot doesn't cut it. In short, in our business we cannot rely on this yet which is too bad because we have to turn to other alternatives (I still prefer us to use KMail instead of Evolution but....) - So, how can we get more userability into the process ?
Hi John. Welcome to open source software.
> For example, how about a survey page for what features are really most needed or desired by users? How about a feedback page like this for each major component - if I'm trying to use KNode and it doesn't meet my needs where do I post something? (and please, not mailing lists - which most regular business people don't want to deal with)
How about stepping back and getting in touch with reality? Open source software is about scratching itches. If you have an itch not being scratched you can scratch it or pay someone to scratch it for you. I do both. I lead a project and I *know* what I want for features. I don't really need to be told, but that doesn't matter because I get piles of requests anyway. I guess I asked for it because we have a feature request page. Of all the requests I get the vast majority of them I've long since thought of. My limitation is not my imagination... it's the amount of people coding for the amount of hours they have to do it with.
So let's look at reality. Even though I have little time to code and do very little of the coding on our project I still answer my emails and work on various aspects of the project... organizing, program specifications, resolving developer questions and focus... I typically spend my first few hours of the day in email. So I have to say something. I also own a business and I've done professional web development on and off since the mid 90s. I would wager my time is worth as much as most people in your business circles. So I really get tweaked by your comments about most business people not wanting to use mailing lists.
Why should I waste my time answering the same damn question two dozen times when I can do it once or reference the archives? I defy you to follow our list and then show me *one* commerical program with as quick a response time, as a solid of service and as accomidating of people as we have. We respond often wthin minutes or hours, or one of our knowlegable users responds. It's rare anything on our list is unanswered after 12 hours. When it comes to features, we had one user contribute less than the cost of a competative web tool and then request a feature. (code shortcuts) We implemented it for him in less than 3 hours instructing him where to download a version with his requested feature.
Maybe a lot of business people need to change the way they look at things? It seems to me that if you are interested in productive results that would be what you would focus on. While we have limitations we still outshine most commercial programs in many areas.
BTW we measure our progress in how productive users can be with Quanta so you could say that our conerstone is usability.
I also wanted to take this opportunity to say that Kitty Hooch really is an excellent cat toy. My cat, has played for an entire hour only taking a break to eat before going back and trying to rip apart the well stiched mouste full of cat nip. It really has been the best toy so far, and there is nothing funner when playing with her than attaching a string to the mouse and watching her run after it when I pull the mouse.
I also wanted to explain why one of the monographed mice said Windows. (I'm mentioning this because there was a not asking why not Linux.) I would much rather see my cat bitting, scratching and tearing apart Windows that I would Linux. I actually like Linux, while I think XP is solid, I still have nightmares from Win 9x series which IMo was as stable as flubber.
I guess I probably should of e-mailed you, this is really OT, but I didn't want to bother you wiht such insignificant comments.
Thanks again for the toy and Quanta!
Omigod... This is my life. For those who don't know I used to be a full time professional web designer and besides burn out (and being too upset to think after losing my mom) I decided to take a few years and focus on my Kitty Hooch business. I still manage the Quanta development project and still do web work of a less stressful nature.
This really is OT (and should have been an email) and my wife mentioned the "Windows" monogram and asked me if I had any idea. I could only come up with the twisted speculation confirmed here. ;-) My personal favorite monogram is "Cat Drugs" however I thought the people who named their cats "chips" and "Dips" was funny.
I just got back from the coast (Astoria), one of the four open markets my wife and I split up and covered this weekend. I heard great testimonials from excited customers all weekend. I thought I'd catch up on my KDE and Quanta stuff... Yes, it's safe to say Kitty Hooch is the most potent and durable catnip toy anywhere. Our goal is to be able to say the same about Quanta.
Thanks for saying good things about both Quanta and our sponsor, Kitty Hooch. I hope to update the site this week and announce a new sponsor who will be helping us to continue to grow Quanta. Also anyone doing complex PHP work might want to try CVS this week and check out the PHP mode of the structure tree... We are working on showing off page PHP data in the tree. Currently it works but needs some refinement.
> how about a survey page for what features are really most needed or desired by users?
Go to http://bugs.kde.org and click on link "The most wanted features".
For those who don't know what catnip is:
""Catnip" is the common name for a perennial herb of the mint family. It is native to Europe and is an import to the United States and other countries. The catnip plant is now a widespread weed in North America.
Given to the right cat, catnip can cause an amazing reaction! The cat will rub it, roll over it, kick at it, and generally go nuts for several minutes. Then the cat will lose interest and walk away. Two hours later, the cat may come back and have exactly the same response.
Because there really isn't any scent that causes this sort of reaction in humans, catnip is hard for us to understand. However, it is not an uncommon behavior in animals that rely heavily on their noses. For example, there are many scents that will trigger intense hunting behavior in dogs, and other scents will cause dogs to stop in their tracks and roll all over the scent.
Although no one knows exactly what happens in the cat's brain, it is known that the chemical nepetalactone in catnip is the thing that triggers the response. Apparently, it somehow kicks off a stereotypical pattern in cats that are sensitive to the chemical. The catnip reaction is inherited, and some cats are totally unaffected by it. Large cats like tigers can be sensitive to it as well.
The reaction to catnip only lasts a few minutes. Then the cat acclimates to it, and it can take an hour or two away from catnip for the cat to "reset." Then, the same reaction can occur again. Very young kittens and older cats seem less likely to have a reaction to catnip. "
-How Stuff Works
The cats affected by catnip IMO are far higher than some people think, it just depends on the quality of the catnip a lot, anyway that's what I heard.
Wow! Suddenly KDE is catnip land. As Robert Nickel said to me when he thought I was confused "I think you've been sampling your inventory".
You are correct in your disertation except that the effect of catnip is an airborne aphrodisiac. This is why kittens have to reach a level of maturity, usually 3-6 months, before they are affected. Also catnip and the less potent catmint were the most popular tea in England until the mid 1600s when they began importing tea from the Indies.
The reaction is often hilarious. Older cats upwards of 21 typically use it for a pillow. For most cats it can amplify playful or sleepy moods. Veterinarians prescribe it for sedintary cats that have lost their appetite as they will play and then eat. I've heard of 14 year old cats doing back flips, cats laying on their back with a toy held in their mouth by their front paws while their back legs twitch and even cats batting at non existant things in the air. Often they roll and kick and bite. I've heard accounts of cats playing for a while and then sitting in the window for an hour looking like it was bombed. On one occasion the smell was so intense in our house while making toys that our four cats were laying around like they melted with their eyes completely black staring off into space for an hour. Don't expect this from a single toy. ;-) One of my cats sat on a chair and stuck his head in a shopping bag full of catnip for five minutes pulling it out to look quite happy. A number of my friends have said if there is reincarnation they want to return as one of my cats.
As far as the percentage of cats affected the supposed number is 80%. I cannot give a scientific result but our experience with our money back guarantee and conversations with our customers about previously unresponsive cats leads me to believe as many as half do not respond to the stale mulched stuff sold commercially and that as few as 1% or less are unaffected by our stuff. I'd love to see clinical data too on the genetic link.
BTW when you look it up note that as a mint it is supposed to grow 3 feet (1 meter) tall. Note that my organic cocktails get mine to 8 feet! (2 2/3 meter) See the attached of me picking.
I realize KDE volunteers are more attracted to "cool" features
Do you think so? My impression is that KDE rather lacks many cool features that I would like to have, starting with more eye candy and ending with buzzwords like web services...
Please suggest the features you'd like to see as wishlist items, or vote for them if they are allready in the database. Better yet, if you can, please implement some yourself.
BTW: I don't think many KDE devellopers spend much time on websites. In my (limited) experience, websites are often maintained by interested people who want to become involved in the KDE project, but can't write C++ code.
I run a 'small business' and it has been based on free-software only since the very beginning. All PCs run a KDE desktop and a mix of KDE/Gnome software, since many of the best applications are based on GTK. Most important:
KWord for writing needs
Quanta for all web development
Gnumeric for finance needs. (KSpread is totally too slow to be usable)
Kdepim (Korganizer/Kmail) for PIM
What I found strange in the critizisem is: "only 3 phone nos are listed". Well, as you can view in the screenshot at
http://reviewed.homelinux.org/screenshots/apps/no/kadressbook.jpg.index-... , you can actually store *5* different phone numbers. And I don't know anybody who's got _that_ many.
I am used to clicking on the person whom I need information about, and when I do I allways view all the phone numbers complete without being cut off.
I also love the fact that birthdays from the adressbook are listed in KOrganizser and Kickpim ( http://kickpim.sourceforge.net/ ).
.. At last, I just wanted to say that I have found some very annoying bugs over the years. And my experience is that http://bugs.kde.org/ are read by the right people, I have allways got an answer (and often a solution) impressivly fast.
Maybe its just me, highly unlikely, but I visit the dot sometimes and the new news items disappear than reappear after a few hours and than comments don't show up for a long time and sometimes not at all. Websites that use the enws feed such as KDE-LOOk don't show updates for the Dot until a few days etc,
Is KDE having server troubles. Btw is there a way to make the dot have a color scheme or design that matches kde.org?
Seems to work now, even though looky is still lagging.