MAY
30
2003

KDE-CVS-Digest for May 30, 2003

This week, new tab widgets are in Konqueror, news on KAudioCreator, MDI support goes into KDE, and more functions and
templates are added to KSpread. Also, many bug fixes have been made to KMail, Konqueror, and KWin. Read it all in the latest KDE-CVS-Digest.

Comments

I don't get it. Juts turn off all the options you don't like and use the light widget style. The sleek, no-clutter CLI that you describe is then right there in front of you, so what's the problem?


By LMCBoy at Tue, 2003/06/03 - 5:00am

Look at the screenshot by binner. There is an X on the side like mozilla. The x in the tabs don't waste any space anyway since they just take the place of the favicon on hover.


By anon at Fri, 2003/05/30 - 5:00am

unfortunately i find the new close tab method annoying at times, since it sometimes accidently press on the icon of the website on the tabwidget to select it (which closes it of course) and crashes konqueror coincidently too :)

it looks ugly anyway so i would rather close them using right click -> close tab :)
also the red color text on the tabs when there is some loading looks a little out of place with the colour scheme. i dont know what you could do about that though...

anyway cvs continues to be very stable and nice so keep up the excellent work people!

ps: keramikII has some nice little additions


By not_regisitered at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

Instead of the red, maybe steal the animation from Mozilla?


By anon at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

While hiding the site icon? And how to display the "unread" state (without hiding the site icon)? In my opinion it's better to display both states with colors rather one with an animation and the other with color.


By binner at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

overlay?


By Sad Eagle at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

While often a great idea I don't think overlay makes much sense here, the size of a favicon is imo way too small for this purpose, and additionally it doesn't help anyway if the favicon's look itself is not know yet to the user.


By Datschge at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

Well, the little star from new window/tab/file icons may fit. I am not sure the icon loader handles overlays this small, though.


By Sad Eagle at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Using colours for this is almost inherently flawed. What if someone uses a different colour scheme? Even if it's configurable it's too much bother. What if someone is colour blind?


By anon at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

It will be either dropped, configurable or use color scheme colors like the newest version. And AFAIK color blind people can differ black, red (appears as brown to red/green blind) and blue.


By binner at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Khotkey 2 is still not merged in. Is it so buggy that people gave up?


By Gesture lover at Fri, 2003/05/30 - 5:00am

You please do it, please, please, please.


By Another gesture... at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

> Is it so buggy that people gave up?

By no means... CVS is still a work in progress.


By trill at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

When eclipse has to deal with a number of tabs, it adds a sort of combo box on the side
which allows the user to pick a particular tab by name, which is a lot more fun that trying
to go "left, left, left, oops too far, right, right". It also has a previous and next tab capability.

I'd love to see this kind of thing for konqueror.


By TomL at Fri, 2003/05/30 - 5:00am

Konqueror already has previous/next tab functionality. I have no idea what you talking about the eclipse though.


By anon at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

Eclipse has previous and next tab capability in the toolbar, in a nice convenient place.
Believe me, eclipse does their tabs in a very, very nice way.


By TomL at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

How about screenshots and more detailed descriptions of its behavior?


By Datschge at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

Thanks derek Kite and Kde developers!!!

Also, I think the Eclipse idea is pretty cool, amybe you should add it as a wishlist item to add as a prefference.

Speaking of tab features, here are some cool ideas at KDE-LOOK.org: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6319 its rough, but if at least #6 would be implemented that would be awesome.


By Alex at Fri, 2003/05/30 - 5:00am

> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6319

Pretty good ideas! I think all of them are pretty much possible with the new tab widget.. I just hope that there are enough developers free enough to implement them all.


By lit at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6319

Pretty good ideas! I think all of them are pretty much possible with the new tab widget.. I just hope that there are enough developers free enough to implement them all.


By lit at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

I read that when you hover a close buttona ppears directly on the tab. This seems very bad usability wise, what if I click to select a tab where the close button is supposed to appear? Wouldn't that close the tab. I don't think i want that, especially since there is already the mozilla way to close tabs. Is there a way to disable it?

Also, can you edit the tab toolbar likea normal toolbar so i can for example remove the add new tab and close tab button if i want and just use the extra toolbar in Konqueror. god, i really hope this is possible. I ahte having diifferent buttons taht do the same thing.


By Alex at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

> I read that when you hover a close buttona ppears directly on the tab. This seems very bad usability wise, what if I click to select a tab where the close button is supposed to appear? Wouldn't that close the tab.

I haven't tried it out personally yet, but the way I beleive it works is that the close button only pops up after a "hover time".. that is, a delay. This is to avoid mistaken clicks.

Btw, is middle button closing ever going to be implemented? Or has it already? It's the thing I miss most from Moz's tabs.

> Is there a way to disable it?

See http://lists.kde.org/?t=105426566900002&r=1&w=2

Apparently no GUI option yet.


By fault at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

> I beleive it works is that the close button only pops up after a "hover time".. that is, a delay.

It didn't have a delay initially but now has for trial.

> is middle button closing ever going to be implemented? Or has it already?

No, see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59172. Middle button is pasting under Linux/Unix and that is what it does in Konqueror and Mozilla's Linux/Unix versions too.


By binner at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

No. In mozilla-firebird for windows the default behavior is to close tabs
with the middle button. To make it work in GNU/Linux just do the following:

1. Open Firebird, type "about:config" as the url.
2. Search for the option "middlemouse.contentLoadURL", set it to `false'
3. DONE!

I miss this in konqueror, I really really really miss it. Hope there is/will be a
way to configure that.

heavyvoid


By heavyVoid at Sat, 2003/11/01 - 6:00am

What about fixing this _annoying_ flickering-toolbar bug...???

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39234

Thanks voting for it!


By yg at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

I beleive the second is already fixed in CVS.. can anyone confirm?


By lit at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

I beleive the second is already fixed in CVS.. can anyone confirm?


By lit at Sat, 2003/05/31 - 5:00am

I have KDE 3.1.2.

#57189 on my 400MHz K-6 III, it is running in Konqueror with 3 other tabs and using:

20 to 30% of CPU.

I'm also compiling the updates on KDE_3_1_BRANCH on a console.

I have no problems.

Should I assume that it is fixed and close it WFM?

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

the image loading bugs are the ones that bother me mostly, i saw mosfet was working on atleast the .gif issue ... right ?
i have 512 meg ram but my konqueror regulary gets OOM killed when i load big .jpg's or .gifs.
the kview part has the same problem (i use it instead of the standard image part because of zoom functionality), and especially when zooming i get OOM kills (guess because the pixmap is scaled in memory instead of just repainted)


By ik at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

OK, I'll vote for that because it is a general problem which is more annoying on a medium speed system 400MHz K-6 III.

Flickering is the result of unneeded screen redraws. This issue should receive more attention -- eliminating them not only eliminates this anoying problem but should result in an increase in performance.

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Where did you get the idea that the flickering is a result of an unneeded redraw? It is a needed redraw, the flickering always occures when you change the view. When changing the view you also change the kpart/embedded KDE app which again has to update the toolbar with its own set of merged icons. Just open eg. a web site and a calendar file like at http://www.apple.com/ical/library/ in separate tabs, switch between them and see what merged toolbar buttons are and how "unneeded" the redraw actually is.

My suggested fix (as mentioned in the report) is delaying the redraw instead showing it in "real time" for avoiding the flickering.


By Datschge at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Excuse my imprecise English.

I should have said redundant redraw.

Do you also feel that redundant redraw is good?

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Well, code could be added to compare the formerly merged toolbar buttons with the newly merged toolbar buttons and only do a redraw when they actually differ, but I don't know whether this is actually improving anything. The flickering would then only appear when the old and new buttons differ. I tend to think that this additional code is worse that just doing the redraw in the end since the redraw flickering issue has to be fixed elsewhere anyway.


By Datschge at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

The flicker isn't a unnecessary redraw that occurs I think-- it's just the erasing of the background several times I beleive.


By lit at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Redundant redraw is a general problem in many (if not all) desktops.

However, I note that simply redraws something won't cause flicker.

It is necessary to first erase it and then redraw it to cause flicker. Clearly, code that does this could use a little improvement.

And, yes this bug should be moved to the code that actually draws the icons.

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Sure, but that would only help when the buttons dont change... cleaner solutions would include a) speeding up the redraw, there is no reason why it has to flicker or b) wait/hope for a backbuffered, Quartz Extreme-like X11solution which should make it easy to hide the flicker.


By AC at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

I don't think that speeding up the redraw will remove the flickering since the flickering is afaics a result of showing in real time how the dynamical old toolbar buttons are getting unloaded and the new ones merged in.


By Datschge at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

Yes, but who says that it is neccessary to redraw the toolbar after unloading the old kpart? That may be a Qt-related problem (when you remove a widget the parent will be redrawn automatically), but still a solvable problem... QWidget would need a "dont redraw unless you get an exposure message" flag.


By AC at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

I think the quickest way to do this to use QWidget's (whatever toolbar ptr's)->setUpdatesEnabled(false) before switching views, and setUpdatesEnabled(true) after the toolbar has been merged in. Hope that the merging code uses QWidget::update and not QWidget::repaint.


By Till Adam at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

Can anyone tell me if the new KTabWidget will allow custom buttons to be added next to the New/Close buttons? If not, then there's no point in my using them.


By Troy Corbin Jr. at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am


By binner at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Thanks for the link, it was helpful, but unfortunatly it shows that no, I can not add an extra ( third ) widget at this time. ( Sorry, I should have explained that better in the first post )


By Troy Corbin Jr. at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Ever heard of nested QWidgets?


By binner at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Ever heard of being polite?


By Troy Corbin Jr. at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Ever heard about looking at the source or asking politely before ranting?


By anon at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

How primitive!


By Somebody at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

*sigh* And we wonder why the KDE community is considered obtuse. Obviously Binner didn't think my question impolite, else he wouldn't have answered. I even said "Thanks" and "it was helpful" in my initial reply. This was not polite? I apologise. Perhaps you, in your trolling, anonymous wisdom can enlighten me, nay, the entire community on polite conversation?

Of course I've heard of looking at the source. When you were in school, did your teacher tell you to research every question you wanted to ask her? The point is that if you don't want to help, then DON'T. The world will still revolve around it's axis without your dull wit. Unless, of course, you're just trolling for a reaction, in which case I humbly suggest you go play on Slashdot.


By Troy Corbin Jr. at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

Ehem, I beg you to differ. Binner gave you a hint how you can add "add an extra ( third ) widget at this time", by his short answer it should be obvious that it's obviously possible to have "nested QWidgets" which would allow you to do what you want. But that time you didn't say "Thanks" and "it was helpful" but "Ever heard of being polite?" so don't be surprised about similar answers with a similar tone.


By Datschge at Sun, 2003/06/01 - 5:00am

"Ever heard..." IS impolite.


By Somebody at Mon, 2003/06/02 - 5:00am

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