OCT
18
2005

KDE 3.5 Beta 2 "Koalition" is Waiting For You

The KDE Project is pleased to announce the immediate availability of KDE 3.5 Beta 2, dubbed "Koalition". The 3.5 Beta 2 info page lists where to download with packages available for Archlinux, Kubuntu, Slackware and SUSE.
The KDE team asks everyone to try the version and give feedback through the bug tracking system. A Klax Live CD is available or you can build it yourself using Konstruct. If you want to see what it looks like OSDir has screenshots.

Comments

Pleeeeaaasssee stop with the dodgy K names! They aren't cool, they're just annoying.


By Tim at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

I like them. Note that the release manager is a German and both "Kanzler" (Beta 1) and "Koalition" are proper German words (and related to current German political events, as a tongue-in-cheek joke).


By Eike Heinb at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

oKay. It is Open Source, feel free to rename it, forK it or whatever.


By gerd at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

I think you meant to say Krename it. ;)


By Whoever at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

kwite korrect...


By Asif Ali Rizwaan at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

Although I agree, I'd be willing to settle for a CONSISTENT use of the letter K. Right now, we have words chosen simply because they contain the letter K (Knights), words with K inserted in front of them (KWord, KSpread), and words misspelled with a K instead of a C, Q, or other consonant (Kaffeine, Konsole, Kuickshow). And we even have a few with no K's at all (my favorites: Quanta Plus, Scribus).

But more importantly, it's just a beta! Who cares what the code name is?!? I'd be willing to have all kinds of nonsense going on with code names if KDE could come up with a more consistent naming style for its applications.

Constructive criticism of KDE is best done at bugs.kde.org, BTW. At least you can be "officially" ignored.


By ac at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

Names like KWord and KSpread are bad.

Consonant + Consonant


By gerd at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

Not intending to defend the nomenclature, but KWord-style names follow a common practice in the Windows and Mac worlds (WinDVD, WinBatch, iTunes, iPhoto). Assuming you pronounce it "KayWord" and not "Quord", you should be fine.

However, the wisdom of smacking extra letters in front of perfectly good words, common practice or not, is still quite debatable.


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

i dont see WinWordPad, WinPaint or WinCalculator here


By roger at Fri, 2005/10/21 - 5:00am

No, but you do see WinDVD, WinImage, WinFax, etc...


By Paul Eggleton at Fri, 2005/10/21 - 5:00am

It seems 95% of all KDE applications seem to have a K, Windows applications dont follow the same convention. KDE programmers are lazy, they cant think of a proper application names, and resort to K-style because everyone else does it, and its always done... think outside the Kbox.


By lynxy at Fri, 2005/10/21 - 5:00am

Really, this argument has been done to death. If all you judge KDE by is the naming of its applications, then quite honestly you can have your Windows.


By Paul Eggleton at Fri, 2005/10/21 - 5:00am

I agree.


By rainier at Wed, 2005/10/26 - 5:00am

Thinking up a name starting with a k is no easier than thinking up a name that doesn't start with a k, if anything it's harder.


By mikeyd at Tue, 2005/11/01 - 6:00am

>>my favorites: Quanta Plus, Scribus

Scribus is not a KDE app.


By patcito at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

Konsole is German for console


By Michael Thaler at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

What's Kuickshow German for?


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

That is not a german word. I guess it means: "quick show", being able to look quickly at your pictures.


By Carsten Niehaus at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

Exactly, but this is inconsistent with KSpread etc.


By mikeyd at Tue, 2005/11/01 - 6:00am

I like the Kwords :) Apps starting with the letter K are distinguishing them selves from other apps on my system. I think it is nice and intuitive way to name things, keep up the good work Kteam :)


By Petteri at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

Considering all the work that goes into KDE it's such a shame
there are always some trolls who only talk about the KNames.
I think it's great there is some sort of name brinding by using
the K. There are some clever ways to do it, like amaroK or
Karbon14 and Krita. And some not so clever ones (you know them
so I wont mention them here). Nevertheless no-one ever complained
about Microsoft Word, Microsoft PowerPoint, Microsoft Paint or
about iTunes, iPhoto, etc.
The K-Names of the releases are really fun and well thought-of
making you think about how the next release could be named.
For people not knowing what's currently on the news in Germany
this is probably not very funny but - hey, cheer up, you get
a brand-new KDE release anyway which is in no way restricted
to Germany ;-)
The thing which makes the K-thing somewhat offensive to mostly native
English-speaking people is perhaps that K is an unusual letter to start
a word with in English - so the whole thing is quite foreign looking.
These people should consider the fact that nearly anything else (like this
post) on the Internet and PC is looking "foreign" for all of us who dont speak English natively.

Back to the new release: Did anyone see any "What's new" information?
What are the big new developments when you are currently using 3.4?
Is it a good idea to switch or is the whole thing still too unstable?
Are there any common pitfalls or things I should know if I want to try
an upgrade?
Thanks to all the KDE developers particpating in this project for
bringing this great software to all of us! There are just so many
things I got really used to over the years. When I sometimes use a colleagues Windows PC at work I am amazed how backwards this whole thing is (press "Ctrl"+"+" in Konq and try that with Explorer for example).
There is not much I can do with programming but I always file bug reports
if I find any bugs and try to make these reports as valuable as
possible for the developers and not file any duplicates - so this is my way to say thank-you. Many others will certainly agree.


By Martin at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

i do totally agree. In all matters. The K-Thing is imho genious ;) And KDE is as well!


By Stephan at Tue, 2005/10/18 - 5:00am

I recognize that quite a lot of work goes into KDE, and resent that certain types of constructive criticism are perpetually labelled "trolls" and summarily ignored.

You like it. I don't. Sounds more like an honest disagreement than one side being a troll and the other being unassailably correct.

For what it's worth, your conjecture about what's troublesome (sounds foreign) isn't correct, at least in my case. "Amaroq" would be a fine foreign-sounding name for a media player. "Amarok" would be a close second. "AmaroK" is my least favorite of the three.

I'd complain about iTunes and iPhoto (and WinDVD, not sure Microsoft Powerpoint is a good example) if I used them and cared about them. Criticism means we love KDE and want it to become better.


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

Your first sentence is a non-sequitur. Your criticism is not constructive; it is whining, pure and simple. But there's something constructive you can do: create a couple of high-profile KDE applications with names you like.


By Boudewijn Rempt at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

> Your criticism is not constructive; it is whining, pure and simple. But
> there's something constructive you can do: create a couple of
> high-profile KDE applications with names you like.

That's ridiculous. No one is going to create whole new applications just to satisfy their moderate dislike over how existing applications are named. And besides it is constructive. I suggest a solution: different names.

As I have been labelled a troll (the geek equivalent to "Well I'm right so there!"), I feel I should defend myself. I don't actually mind K[Normal Word] apps like KOffice and KMail - they do have advantages:

- Similar naming method to other OS's (Win[Word], i[Word], Be[Word], K[Word])
- You know it is a KDE app.
- You know what it does (usually the [Word] is descriptive, eg KPDF, KDevelop)

The ones I don't like are where C's and Q's are replaced with K. How many commercial products are named like that (that don't make you cringe)? It's one step on the long and annoying road to l337 5p34k.


By Tim at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

I believe the "write your own" argument would be better phrased as "the authors have the right to name the apps they create. Where does your right come from?"


By Evan "JabberWok... at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

You mean like the Konqueror developers have the right to create an application with CSS bugs, therefore I have no right to complain about these bugs?

Your logic escapes me. I see a problem and am suggesting a fix. People do that all the time. If I don't have the right to do that, we may as well shut down bugs.kde.org.


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

"Your logic escapes me. I see a problem and am suggesting a fix."

Renaming an established app is more than 'fixing a bug'. It is a major change involving the Free Software equivalent of rebranding and remarketing. What if the site where the source is downloaded from is named after the app? Or if the way you retrieve bug reports is via the app name?

Anyway what track record do you have in inventing interesting names? As far as I can see you don't have the technical skills to write an app, and probably couldn't invent a suitable name for it either.

Often developers will seek help to think of a good name before they release their app, and anyone in the community including yourself is welcome to make suggestions. That isn't the same as demanding that existing apps be renamed.


By Richard Dale at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

The costs of fixing a bug are often high. The costs of fixing this bug, no doubt, are high. Much like the costs of rewriting webcore. It's really up to the developer to decide if it's worth it. High costs do not, however, mean the bug stops being a bug.

Regarding your question about my expertise: You mean, if I can identify a bug but can't fix it, I have no right to report it? I had no idea that this was KDE policy. I'll make a note. Please keep in mind that the Quanta Plus developers seemed to have found a solution for this problem in their application.

And lastly--I'm not DEMANDING that anything be renamed. I am simply pointing out that the current naming scheme is inconsistent at best and silly at worst. I am SUGGESTING that renaming the apps would solve this problem.

The only thing I am demanding is the right to make honest suggestions to improve the products I use every day. You have the right to ignore me, but you'd be wrong to label me a troll.


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

> Renaming an established app is more than 'fixing a bug'. It is a major change
> involving the Free Software equivalent of rebranding and remarketing. What if
> the site where the source is downloaded from is named after the app? Or if
> the way you retrieve bug reports is via the app name?

I agree. Renaming existing apps is probably a reasonably amount of hassle (depending on how large/popular it is).

> Anyway what track record do you have in inventing interesting names? As far
> as I can see you don't have the technical skills to write an app, and
> probably couldn't invent a suitable name for it either.

Don't go assuming this about people. For all you know he could be in the advertising business! Furthermore, since when did development skills have anything to do with good naming skills?

> Often developers will seek help to think of a good name before they release
> their app, and anyone in the community including yourself is welcome to make
> suggestions. That isn't the same as demanding that existing apps be renamed.

Well, maybe sometimes. And sometimes they have competitions which is good. Should be done more.

Maybe dot.kde.org should have a vote on alternative names for (eg) Kuickshow. Then at least we'd know how many people prefer what style. I think small utility apps should be called obvious names btw. I'd suggest "Image Viewer", or something.


By Tim at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

> I'd suggest "Image Viewer", or something.

Compare:
google for "Kuickshow bugs" versus google for "Image Viewer bugs"

Which gives better results?

Distinctive names are good. I don't particularly care either way about the K naming, but general names are terrible for software.


By Leo at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

It's not my logic; it is the logic of the person you were first replying to. I never said I agree with it.

You certainly have a right to complain. People also have the right to ignore your complaints.

Personally, I see no difference between KWord and KSpread versus MS Office and MS Windows and iBook and iPod. It's just a prefix for branding. Apple has the i- and Power- prefix, KDE has the K- prefix.

Unless you're saying that Microsoft and Apple are both lousy at marketing and branding, KDE is doing a pretty standard thing.


By Evan "JabberWok... at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

Would "AmaroK"'s analogue in the commercial world be "PowerPointMICROSOFT"? I don't see a lot of that out there.


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

*sigh*

Okay, okay, we all bow to your brilliant expose of the clearly inferior names of KDE applications.

Now, I need to get work done, so I'll return to my fatally flawed desktop, thanks.


By Evan "JabberWok... at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

I would have settled for a "I can see how some people might think that, but I don't agree" but suit yourself. I wasn't looking for surrender so much as an end to the denial of the validity of my position.

Back to my own fatally flawed desktop too.


By ac at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

amaroK is named after the song "Amarok" by a famous singer, the amaroK-team is a fan of.

The could have named is Kamarok, but decided to emphasize the last K in the word in stead :)


By rinse at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Bugs and names are very dissimilar. Bugs generally affect everyone, and everyone wants them fixed, but names are matters of taste, some people like them and some not, you can't 'fix' a name so that everyone would like it.

I have nothing against suggesting names, but demanding that names of established apps because some people do not like them is silly


By Arb at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Calling it silly is being kind.


By Jay at Wed, 2005/10/26 - 5:00am

This comparison is transparent sophistry, and your followup is even worse, and damages your credibility in the eyes of reasonable persons. Your dislike or annoyance about an app name is not a bug.


By Jay at Wed, 2005/10/26 - 5:00am

> The ones I don't like are where C's and Q's are replaced with K.
> How many commercial products are named like that
> (that don't make you cringe)?
> It's one step on the long and annoying road to l337 5p34k.

I can see what you mean but don't agree. I find the one great K in KDE apps not only quite funny, but also very useful. Especially in the smaller helper apps, like e.g. Image Viewers they enable me to assert wether the application is useful to me by only looking at the name. Kuickshow is an ideal example, IMVHO.
Ok, KQuickshow would work, too, but I find that somewhat lame (And it can't be pronounced without stutering). "Image Viewer" or "Quickshow" would not enable me to do that, since I can't see wether it is written for Windows, Gnome, X, Qt only, or whatever. Even worse are names like Gwenview, which misgide you.


By Fabio at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

"I suggest a solution: different names."

Oh yeah, that's real constructive, like "I don't like this. My constructive offering: do it differently."

"The ones I don't like are where C's and Q's are replaced with K."

You complained about Koalition which, as has been pointed out is a German word. So all we have here is your personal opinion, which is worth squat, and your ignorance, which is worth less. And your dishonesty, since your subject line was "KKill".

"It's one step on the long and annoying road to l337 5p34k."

It's also one step on the road to the heat death of the universe. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy
("the slippery slope claim requires independent justification to connect the inevitability of B to an occurrence of A. Otherwise the slippery slope scheme merely serves as a device of sophistry")


By Jay at Wed, 2005/10/26 - 5:00am

Don't be silly.

Amarok was named after a song called "Amarok".

Why would calling it "Amaroq" be in any way better? Why is randomly substituting "q"-s better than randomly substituting "k"-s?


By KOffice fan at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

Because "Amaroq" is the widely accepted transliteration of the Inuit word for wolf?


By ac at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

So widely accepted that the spelling "amarok" beats it 17:1 in Google? (That's *after* excluding the terms kde and oldfield).

So widely accepted that amarok (the wolf) has a wikipedia entry and amaroq doesn't?


By cm at Wed, 2005/10/19 - 5:00am

Mike Oldfield chose a bad transliteration, almost all those other references are derived from that one source.

Google (thank goodness) is not the arbiter of transliteration of Inuit words into latin letters. Consult a linguist next time and you'll get better results.

Incidentally, I did say Amarok was "a close second" naming-wise. I'd greatly prefer "Amarok" to "AmaroK".


By ac at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

- Why don't you cite your linguistic source? This is in no way to doubt your knowledge but why should I believe an ac?

- Have you already corrected/added the Wikipedia entry? Don't forget to give references.

- It's funny how language works. People use a certain meaning or spelling of a word that may be considered wrong and because of that use it becomes accepted at some point. One example is the wrong use of the word "irony" that is now recognized by the American Heritage Dictionary. See the section "Usage controversy" in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony .

- Google may not be an arbiter of original linguistic transliteration of a word but it is an indicator of actual use. Good luck convincing the world that it is wrong. Oh, right, that's what you're trying here.


By cm at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Greenland went through the process of providing dual names to its cities (Danish and Inuit). Although the Danes liked to spell Inuit words with K's, it turns out the Inuits spelled the city names with Q's.

In fact, there's not a single Inuit word containing the letter K. The K, you see, is a reminder of a long past of Danish cultural dominance.

Thanks for caring. Linguistic source? Any Inuit dictionary, published in the past five years. No K's. Anywhere.


By ac at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Hey! Turns out we're both wrong.

It's Amaruq.

Go figure.

http://www.livingdictionary.com/term/viewTerm.jsp?term=49171742339

You can also get Amaguk (with a K!) in the Nunatsiavut dialect.


By ac at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Thanks for that background info.

I'd still say that anything but the spelling amarok is not widely used/accepted in the real world, though (no matter if the other spellings are more correct...)


By cm at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Regarding languages, I define "the real world" as the people who speak the language in question natively--which is always a minority of the world, no matter what language you're talking about. Mistakes by foreigners are frequent, and often the same mistakes are repeated again and again, but they rarely become "official".


By ac at Thu, 2005/10/20 - 5:00am

Pages