Quickies: QtRuby, amaroK, Create, Ging

There is an audio interview with Caleb Tennis author of the new book Rapid GUI Development with QtRuby. *** amaroK started their fundraising drive. *** Newsforge reports on Create @ Freedesktop the new project to bring together graphics projects including Scribus and Krita, meanwhile Open Clip Art Library 0.18 was released. *** Ging released 0.1.0 of their Debian GNU/kFreeBSD Live CD based on KDE.

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by dott (not verified)

OK, I'm trying to understand what's going on.

If everything means what it seems to mean, then the following hold:

1. Novell dropped one KDE developer (which is sad) and many Ximian developers (which is sad from a social POV, but on the other hand it makes me rejoice at the thought of the world being bothered by one less silly diversion). Gnome Planet says that former Ximian employees are being offered new jobs at VMWare (?!).

2. Evolution is dead. The team has been disbandled.

3. It is not at all clear whether Hula has been dropped or not.

4. Cuts have been made in Mono, but it seems to be still alive. That would be politically sad to hear, because Mono is the silliest diversion of them all (a patent encumbered technically inept clone of a clone of java which always claims to be the future of the 'linux desktop'- which is how ximian megalomaniacs call gnome)

5. Gnome is the default on NLD, but there's nothing new in that. On the other hand, it's not clear whether there will still be an NLD left.

6. It seems that Gnome will be the default on SLES, but nothing has been actually said about this. A journalist (S. Vaughan-Nichols) thinks so, but that doesn't really matter

7. Up to now nothing really to worry about (except perhaps point 6). The real problem seems to be that

- the real SUSE (not NLD, which is just a ximianesque exercise in futility) might get reduced to a 'community edition'. Don't read 'community effort', which is good. Read 'crippled, beta quality crap, just as fedora or mandriva community edition, which the community losers test, debug and improve so that we (the smart ones at novell) can get richer'. We could no longer recommend SUSE to non-geek friends, and there would be nothing left to point them to

- if the previous holds, then Novell will wisely invest it's money in something more profitable than KDE support, which will be left to volunteers. Of course, wise and profitable are to be read with a slight touch of 'mamma, you bought me this toy but you never taught me how to play with it so i broke it'

8. If 7 holds, then there are two ways out:

- (the compromise) Kubuntu

- the good way out. A new distro to finally provide something good. Who might be interested in doing that? I don't know. Trolltech doesn't seem to, and I'd only trust a company with something if there's a profit to be made (of course, there's a profit to be made with SuSE too, but one needs to know how)

The bottomline: just wait for more news :) And never trust Ximian propaganda.

by ac (not verified)

After scratching my head I came up with the right solution :)

Don't petition Novell, because they have every right in the world to ignore you and they will. Also don't quit openSUSE, because it's good.

But if you're German, petition your government to expropriate Novell in the public interest and turn SuSE Linux into a foundation. Even on a tight budget, this is perfectly doable, and the foundation would more than certainly be eligible for European funding (not that I have something against American people using and supporting it, quite the contrary holds).

by cm (not verified)


by m. (not verified)

Novell's move is sad but as I read announcements not very bad for KDE.

As I read announcements looks like Novell is withdrawing from Linux on
desktop. Bad news for Munich and Linux on desktop generally but for well
managed project like KDE not tragic. You say NLD. Did you hear about
large adoptions of it in real life? I predict it will follow Sun's idea
in 2 years (JDS - silent death). It will make one another hyped project
dead with GNOME as default. Maybe then someone will realize that most of
commercially viable desktop oriented Linux distributions are using KDE
as default (Xandros, Linspire, Mandriva).

by cm (not verified)

Erm, Munich is not affected, Novell had lost that bidding:

by AnonyMouse (not verified)

Well, that means they went to Gnome, too... Debian is a Gnome-centric distro.

by Christoph (not verified)

Debian is not centric-anything. There are quite a few GTK2 (not even GNOME) applications for administration (synaptic beeing the most important), but that's due to many Debian developers *using* GNOME. Still you don't have any preferrence at all in a freshly installed Debian system.

As far as I can tell Munich will be using KDE, just like Vienna (Wienux*) and the BSI* distribution do - two different systems for public and governmental use.

So, choosing Debian doesn't automatically give you GNOME in any way. In german-speaking parts of europe you'd probably need a pretty strong attraction towards GNOME first.


by superstoned (not verified)

nope, they run KDE. (munchen, that is. and Debian is DE-agnostic, altough the KDE release in it is quite vanilla. maybe the kubuntu changes find their way back into debian?!?)

by ac (not verified)

I'd go much farther. To anyone who is afraid that there will be a lack of good distros for KDE:

Debian is a good KDE distro *because* they release a vanilla, non-mangled, KDE.

by cm (not verified)

ACK, I've been using that very version for more than a year now. No major complaints so far. Even Sarge got released at some point along the road. ;-)

by superstoned (not verified)

well, i prefer suse's enhanced KDE release, but i guess that's also depending on taste... (yeah, ive used vanilla kde, and still use it (gentoo) but i really love what suse did to KDE).

I think Gnome people will be very sorry if they win this fight. Because, then, they will loose the war. "Ugh?!" you say; read on...

KDE is KDE not because we are uneducated about "the better ways", but because we fundamentally don't give a damn about "the better ways." There are so many of us; there is NO single better way possible. KDE is an elastic building, you can shape it any way you want, and build on top effortlessly.

You can kill the toolkit by pigeonholing it, but you can't keep the massess from wanting a platform that is as elastic and free-willing as itself. If KDE will be shunned into a hole because of Qt's lisencing liabilities we may move over to GTK territory. As I said before, when our forefathers chose Qt, "they didn't give a damn"(c) about lisencing. All they cared about is having a good base to build on. If Qt really becomes a liability for us when it comes to swindling money from the major distros, we will move over to your lawn.

We will tramp your flowers, step on your bare fingers with our heavy boots and spit on your spacial browser from a konquering height. We will forcefully industrialize you, and make GTK dance C++.

The final piece will be the sweetest - the gang of feudal war-lords (you know how you are) will find themselves without your ideologically-brainwashed goons.

If you sink our island, we will move over to yours and, then, there will be no Shire no more....

At that point Miguel de Icaza woke up and realized that it was only a nighmare... or was it?! Tam tam Tam Paaaaam!

by Daniel Borgmann (not verified)

Actually, everyone would be happy if you do that. No nightmare at all. :) Most of the free software community is already mixing and matching and not bothering with this "us vs. them" attitude. I do not think that it will ever happen though, because it would be a mighty bunch of work for no obvious technical advantage.

na, i think he is right. gnome is quite closed, you don't seem to get into it easilly. so it is likely, IF kde would have to be abandoned over-night (very very unlikely, but hey, for the sake of argument) they'll fork gtk, rebuild it into qt-something and adapt KDE to run on it... will kill gnome, i'm sure, if they succeed.

That's not necessary because none of thbis is true ;-).

by Daniel Borgmann (not verified)

If you have the skills, you get in easily. But more importantly, I was talking about individual software projects mixing and matching. If the KDE project would decide to fork Gtk for example and if this fork would be successful, then nobody would say "ooh that comes from the evil KDE project, let's not touch it". It would be a good thing! And if it would be too different to mix and match, then it would still be a good thing because it would provide choice. Just like XFCE is a choice for people for whom GNOME is too heavy and nobody is bitter about that (any such feelings are usually made up from the outside). Some "GNOME developers" are actually running XFCE theirself. Or mixing XFCE with Nautilus. Or GNOME with XFWM. Whatever works for them.

But then again it won't happen, so this is unfortunately just theoretical talk. ;)

by Morreale Jean Roc (not verified)

On their website it states that the fundraising is over since 4 days and they hvae no reached their target. I think they made a mistake by not making more "advertising" for it like the late announcement in this news. I was not aware the'y were looking for donations until today.

by Mark Kretschmann (not verified)

Yes, that was bad timing. Anyway, we are going to extend the fund drive for another two weeks or so, until we have reached the goal.

So your contributions are still welcome :)

by Morreale Jean Roc (not verified)

Already done and I'm forcing others to do so ;)

can you tell who is getting how much money for what ?

I'm citing from the amaroK website:

"These costs include server hosting and bandwidth, development hardware and also developer meetings. So we are starting a fundraising campaign: our aim is to collect 5,000 US $ by 1st November 2005"

yes sure but $5k , does sound like some random number like : hmmmm wie need xxxx money so just make some more like the next big number.....

Well, it is for website hosting and bandwidth, some development hardware, some travel expenses to bring some of the developers together for a coding session and project meeting, etc. and it is actually far less than the real expenses because anybody doing any of the traveling will also will be dipping into their own pockets, not to mention many of us expend significant personal funds to pay for development related stuff, like hardware, bandwidth, etc.

So yes, it is kind of a round number because it is all we felt we could really ask the community to contribute even though we'd really like twice that. So don't worry, we won't be buying too much beer with your money.

by Andre (not verified)

Everybody was sceptical when Novell took over SuSE. It was expected that Novell would ruin this wonderful company and it turns out to be well-founded when you look at these stupid business strategies. I say.

1. SuSE knows its market. SuSe has customers. SuSE customers want KDE. Good companies leaves the decision to their customers.

2. Novell solutions are just a rebranded SuSE. Novell has no experience in Linux and xiamian has no market.

3. Ximian is a desktop FUD machine. Leave desktop strategy to those in your company who know their customers and actually sell products.

4. "Linux Desktop" means KDE in Europe. Ubuntu might be a rare exeption. Userlinux was vapourware. RedHat does not target the desktop.

5. It's not about babies. It is about knowledge of the market and your corporate best pratice. Why did you buy a traditional KDE desktop distribution? In order to ruin its market?

6. Cut jobs in the US but do not cut jobs in Nuremberg. Fire those managers responsible for this decision which gives a very bad impression about Novell and sents a message of distrust to the market.

by senori (not verified)

How delightful. :)

Oh yes, Novell has /ruined/ SuSE. /No one/ in their right mind would /ever/ use a distribution where KDE is optional, right?

1) Note that these are the Enterprise versions of SuSE, the Enterprise Server and their Novell edition, not SuSE itself. SuSE, and openSuSE, continue to support KDE as a primary desktop.

2) Novell solutions are based off of SuSE, yes, and I'm sure they contain some minor improvements. However, to say that Novell has no experience in the market is absurd, and to say Ximian (and by extension GNOME) has no market is ludicrous.

3) Heh.

4) Probably one of the reasons they're not removing KDE from their desktop distribution. ;)

5) To gain a profitable company with which they can base their Enterprise Linux products?

6) heh.

by Pietro (not verified)

Ubuntu Conference Affirms Commitment to Kubuntu and KDE

The Ubuntu Below Zero conference is in full momentum this week and Kubuntu has been prominent throughout. In his opening remarks at the start of the conference Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth announced that he was now using Kubuntu on his desktop machine and said he wanted Kubuntu to move to a first class distribution within the Ubuntu community. The large number of Kubuntu users at the conference was evidence as the need for this. Free CDs for Kubuntu through shipit should be available for the next release if the planned Live CD Installer removes the need for a separate install CD.


by ac (not verified)

Indeed. And if all the stuff around Novell/SuSE appears to be true KDE supporters at OpenSUSE better move their efforts to Kubuntu since that's getting shipments starting with the next release.

by Anonymous Coward (not verified)

Already downloading DVD iso. Should be installed by tomorrow morning :)

by Christoph Wiesen (not verified)

Good move. Strange to say I move from Kubuntu breezy to OpenSUSE this morning. Ok I installed it side-by-side like I always do, but still...

I can say though that there's not much thats actually easier to do on SUSE than on Kubuntu - some trimmed down YaST (minus everything that's already in system-settings) for hardware configuraiton would do kubuntu some good, but otherwise I think it can handle any SUSE refugees already.

FYI my Kubuntu -> SUSE move was merely based on performance issues with Kubuntu. Maybe I'll try a fresh breezy install - possibly my issues are just a leftover from hoary (upgraded to breezy).

by Anonymous Coward (not verified)

> but otherwise I think it can handle any SUSE refugees already.

I'm a corporate user, so i'm probably a bit difficult as I require encrypted
partitions, cisco VPN connections, MS Exchange interworking, ACPI etc. Hope it really works.

by enterprise needs (not verified)

* encrypted partitions: use encrypted ext3. That's part of _any_ distribution out there. (don't know about encrypted reiserfs though)

* cisco VPN: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=12570

* MS Exchange interworking: There's nothing in SUSE concerning that that wouln't be in Debian/Kubuntu as well.

* ACPI: usually works well with kubuntu

by a (not verified)

> I can say though that there's not much thats actually easier to do on SUSE > > than on Kubuntu

To give you a hint: try to write a J2EE app with Eclipse deploying on Tomcat, using various jars (mostly from Apache, with one exception), in a sane (working) Java environment while getting securtiy upgrades for part of these. Install the JDK sources from repositories and have them automatically added to your Eclipse configuration. Install Apache Httpd and some PHP apps and watch them working from the first try. Etc Etc Etc

Do all of these with Ubuntu/Kubuntu. You can, of course, but you need to take the distro's job on your shoulders. Kubuntu won't give you that.

Of course, for a hobby it's OK, albeit unstable.

This is why people need SUSE.

by Christoph Wiesen (not verified)

I don't develop Java apps so might not be able to follow all the stuff you suggested, but it doesn't sound very unlikely to work on Kubuntu. Security updates, working environment, apache /w php (what is there works - have yet to find something that's really broken on a stable release).

What is an issue here of course is the community / OSS thing. basically we would only get the "openSUSE OSS" version of SUSE with Kubuntu, there's no business around it and that's what will break KDE in the end for these uses.

You want VPN, SAN, supported backup solutions? Of course you can! Pick Novell's and Red Hat's GNOME desktops...

I said it once, I'll say it again: bah!


Totally unreleated to this post, but some more opinions about the topic in general:


But this discussion has been there every now and again - lot's of (imporatant) people disagree completely with the Qt thing and so it's probably no good going through all this again.

by enterprise needs (not verified)

There are a lot of small companies who do business with Debian. Those can center around Kubuntu as well.

by Anonymous Coward (not verified)

Any chance people would vote with their wallets instantly?

Clear your bugz entries, leave mailing lists, pack out. This could probably be the only way to send clear signal to SUSE management.

by Patcito (not verified)

Clear your bugz entries, leave mailing lists, pack out.

And then fork it, make it better and incompatible with Suse just to piss them off! :)

by a.c. (not verified)

Mail back the box, and tell them that if you wanted a GNOME desktop, you will go with Redhat or Sun.

by Jo Øiongen (not verified)

This just shows the importens of (independant)distros like skolelinux (link to english site http://www.skolelinux.org/portal/index_html ) Distroes like this is all about technikal merrit and not about PR_person_let_us_marketing_our_ass_off_decision. If we are able to penetrate the education system whit this distro, just think what the generation growing up will choose when they start working after ended education ;)

by Alex (not verified)

What are the pros and cons of either of these excellent toolkits for rapid GUI development?

by Caleb Tennis (not verified)

From a technical standpoint, both are very very similar. Basically it's a choice of which language you prefer.

As for what you can do with QtRuby, I've put up some small hacks in my blog for things you can do with them:


by ac (not verified)

# "For example, in 2003, open-source leader Bruce Perens' attempt
# to make GNOME the default desktop for the Debian-based UserLinux
# was fought by KDE supporters."

And we all know what happened to KDE back then: it got killed. It got butchered. It got sliced. It killed itself. It committed suicide. It died the death of bloat. It starved from being not accepted by enterprises.

Oh wait... Where is UserLinux nowadays?

Where will Novell be in 2 years from now?

by Bert (not verified)

The problem is: KDE will not get killed. But SuSE.

Usual scheme:

1. adopt Gnome
2. ???
3. abandon Desktop Linux strrategy

Comparative study of various vendors' business decisions:

1. Adopt Gnome as the only Linux desktop
2. Loose lots of money
3. Become disillusioned in desktop on Linux
4. ???
5. Abondon Linux desktop strategy

1. Adopt Gnome as the only Linux desktop
2. Loose lots of money
3. Become disillusioned in desktop on Linux
4. ???
5. Abondon Linux desktop strategy

1. Adopt Gnome as the only Unix desktop
2. Loose lots of money
3. Become disillusioned in desktop on Unix
4. ???
5. Abondon Unix desktop strategy

1. Adopt Gnome as the only Linux desktop
2. Loose lots of money
3. Become disillusioned in desktop on Linux
4. ???
5. Abondon Linux desktop strategy

1. Adopt Gnome as the only Linux desktop
2. Loose lots of money
3. Become disillusioned in desktop on Linux
4. ???
5. Abondon Linux desktop strategy

Anyone else seeing a common pattern here?

Probably Mark Shuttleworth does. He's a smart guy. He embraced KDE and encouraged Kubuntu to take off. He now uses KDE/Kubuntu on his personal desktop
[ http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php ].
I'm sure this man already thinks how he can take advantage of the stupidity displayed by Novell management in chopping KDE and betting their careers on Gnome.

The Ubuntu suite of offerings is starting to become really sweet -- rock-solid servers based on Debian, Gnome/Ubuntu as well as KDE/Kubuntu offerings for desktops, workstations and thin clients -- and it is going to be ready to enter the enterprise market very soon too. (And in my definintion of "enterprise", it is not only the top 500, but most important the Small and Medium Businesses (SMB), where Linux stands the best chances to be adopted by the owners, as well as supported by small IT professional service providers.)

I don't know if you realized, but MandrakeSoft and SUSE also lost lots of money. SUSE was bought by another company, and I don't have to begin talking about the financial problems with Mandrake.

Another thing, SUSE Linux and OpenSUSE will always support both KDE and GNOME equally, as you see in version 10. What's changing is Novell products for corporations.

And since you mention Sun, I can tell you they gave new life to their workstations since making GNOME the default.

"And since you mention Sun, I can tell you they gave new life to their workstations since making GNOME the default."

Well duh! Sun could have chosen ANYTHING besides CDE and given new life to their workstations!

> and I don't have to begin talking about the financial problems with Mandrake.

Actually it was the e-learning division that made Mandrake lost money, not the Linux desktop.

> And since you mention Sun, I can tell you they gave new life to their
> workstations since making GNOME the default.

Yet they seems to have changeed idea: http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=12501
Gnome is a "throw away" desktop now...

"I don't know if you realized, but MandrakeSoft and SUSE also lost lots of money. SUSE was bought by another company, and I don't have to begin talking about the financial problems with Mandrake."

Actually Mandriva is profitable now. The distro always ways, it was the ill-conceived e-learning stuff that lost money. Heck, they've even started buying out other distros, not the normal sign of a financially troubled organisation.


by Anonymous Coward (not verified)

Agreed. Common pattern there is not listening to your customers.

To take advantage of the situation now, KDE should concentrate on that one message, and hammer it home.

I'm even happy with leaving the server market to Gnome, and the GUI admin terminals serving as a window into the servers' bowels.

But the field of KDE is the desktop. The workstations. The thin clients. The kiosk-ed computers. The classrooms. The home users. The SOHO, SMB & SME offices.

by ex-suse (not verified)

Over the boring weekend I came across a most excellent market analysis and study conducted by John H. Terpstra, member of the Samba Team.

It is published by planetlinux.com. A four part series with extremely valuable facts, figures and arguments:

--> "The Yin and Yang of Open Source Commerce, Parts 1-4"

* Part 1: http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6062/1/
* Part 2: http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6064/1/
* Part 3: http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6065/1/
* Part 4: http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6066/1/

John does not only comment on the past blunders of Novell (while writing this series he was not aware of the current decision process inside Novell), he also has invaluable advice for anyone who tries to establish Linux desktops in commercial environments.

According to John, the best bet for any pushers of Linux for the desktop is the market of the SOHOs (Small Office/Home Office), SMBs (Small and Medium sized Businesses -- up to 25 employees) and SMEs (Small and Medium sized Enterprises -- up to 500 employees).