KDE Commit-Digest for 11th June 2006

In this week's KDE Commit-Digest: oKular gets a backend for the DjVu document format. amaroK is renamed Amarok. Guidance, a modular configuration GUI, gets a WINE module. Developments in the Kopete "OSCAR (AIM) File Transfer", "WorKflow" and "KDevelop C# Parser" Summer Of Code projects. KFormula, the KOffice formula component, defaults to the OpenDocument format.

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Comments

by Patcito (not verified)

> in my country most people use the same word for ZIP as in English.
>>Well, here they don't
are you sure? did you try "zip " on google? I'm sure you'll get tones of accurate results. Most jeans model have ZIP in there name :-)

> Ask your gf :)
>> Well, something is wrong if our hypothetical user would have to ask his gf
usually when people don't get the icon, they look at the file extention. KDE displays them on default so if he/she knows what a zip file is he'll figure it out. If he/she don't know then I'm afraid no icon will help. In the worse case he/she could just click on it and see what happen.

> I've never seen anyone confused by KDE's folder icon
well believe me cause I did

>for example by adding more blue into colour schemes, background, and everywhere else
enough of blue, this is so 90, can't we get away from this color? how about some nice orange? not brown but bright orange, it really looks great

by ac (not verified)

> in my country most people use the same word for ZIP as in English.
>> Well, here they don't
> are you sure? did you try "zip " on google? I'm sure you'll get tones of accurate results. Most jeans model have ZIP in there name :-)
0 results. Not much for a language with some 40 mln speakers...

> usually when people don't get the icon, they look at the file extention. KDE displays them on default so if he/she knows what a zip file is he'll figure it out. If he/she don't know then I'm afraid no icon will help. In the worse case he/she could just click on it and see what happen.
In the worst case a user wil spend a minute or more looking for a file which IS there, only with a totally unexpected icon. I for example know what a ZIP file is, and considering that Windows uses package, KDE/Crystal uses a package, basically everything I used uses package for archives, I would spend some time looking for a package, and disregarding that zip picture (had I not found about it earlier). Probably even despite the fact that I know what the word zip means in English.

>>for example by adding more blue into colour schemes, background, and everywhere else
> enough of blue, this is so 90, can't we get away from this color? how about some nice orange? not brown but bright orange, it really looks great
DEATH BEFORE ORANGE (or anything that isn't blue)!!!

by Martin (not verified)

Patcito:
in my country most people use the same word for ZIP as in English. And in every country people that know fashion a bit call it zip too. Ask your gf :)

ac:
Here they don't, at least I have never heard that. And I would be suprised if it was used here because the word zip would have a really weird declension.

Patcito:
are you sure? did you try "zip " on google? I'm sure you'll get tones of accurate results. Most jeans model have ZIP in there name :-)

ac:
0 results.

This is a really weird conversation. I realize that there are people on this planet that believe in strange things, including a bizarre theory such as "zip means the same in every language on earth."

But what on earth would make someone insist on this being true even in the face of a native speaker asserting the opposite?

by Patcito (not verified)

>0 results. Not much for a language with some 40 mln speakers...
ok, type "zip jeans" in your local google, if there is still no results then I guess you won :) by the way what is your country?

by Patcito (not verified)

> 40 mln speakers
I guess you might be from Poland:
http://www.google.pl/search?hl=pl&inlang=pl&ie=ISO-8859-2&q=zip+jeans&bt...

or Spain:
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=zip+jeans&btnG=B%FAsqu...

see, that's thousands of results :)

by Martin (not verified)

Are you for real?

Look, here is what my all-knowing computer told me just now:

delphi> zip-means-the-same-in-every-human-language
false
delphi> _

by ac (not verified)

I'm beginning to suspect you are just prolonging this discussion for some twisted kind of fun, but in case you are serious:
Actually Spanish has ~300 mln native speakers, that's more than English (Hint: Spanish is the native language not only in Spain). Just a note, so you don't think English is the most important of the languages KDE supports, and "if English know what ZIP means everyone else is insignificant".

First one is actually written half in Polish, half in English, and ZIP is used in English part.
Second, in rough translation:
Jeans, blah blah, are cool, blah, blah, our shop is the best, blah blah blah, you can download our offert here: our_prices.ZIP
Another random one: "Sexy front-ZIP wetlook pants with pockets flared legs" - even you must suspect it's not Polish.
And so on.
ZIP. Does. NOT. Mean. ANYTHING. To. Average. Non-English-speaking. Person. Using. KDE!

by Patcito (not verified)

and how about that one then? :)
http://skateshop.pl/search.php?text=zip

by ac (not verified)

They are SKATES for goodness sake! In other words, a subculture widely known for using a weird mix of Polish, English and "yo!"s thrown in between.

Sigh. Must we really go through the entire Internet, or will you believe me that an average Pole does not know that zip and zamek błyskawiczny are the same thing?

by ac (not verified)

Okay, prehaps this will convince you:

Search for "zip" in Polish Language Dictionary by PWN yelds only "zipać", which means "to breathe heavily, to be winded":
http://sjp.pwn.pl/slowo.php?co=zip

Search for "zip" in Dictionary of words borrowed into Polish from other languages by PWN: 0 results:
http://swo.pwn.pl/slowo.php?co=zip

In Dictionary of borrowed words by Kopaliński: http://www.slownik-online.pl/cgibin/search?charset=utf-8&words=zip&Submi...
we get:
poptop
ziptop
ziptop
zip code
poptop
Multislownik
Discarding the obviously wrong, we are left with ziptop twice defined as a type of can from which lid can be removed by pulling at a metal strip around the edge of the lid, and zip code which means the area code system from US.

by Patcito (not verified)

ok but then how about that?
http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/zip

by David (not verified)

So the guy who invented ZIP compression was wrong in call it ZIP.

by ac (not verified)

Note the "Kategorie stron: angielski (indeks)" ("Page cathegory: English (index)") annotation at the bottom. Wikidtionary.pl contains many English words, such as http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/always or anything else in the English cathegory here: http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kategoria:angielski_(indeks)

So zip is listed as an English word. There is no such word in Polish language.

by Isaac (not verified)

Basing a visual cues on words or word associations is a big no-no. It should be based on the concept only. An archive, package, etc. Just basic industrial design common-sense.

And in my language, ZIP means nothing. I showed that "zip" icon to friends who use computers everyday, and I needed to tell them what it stands for. Don't project assumptions based in YOUR culture on the whole world. That's a slippery slope.

by WTAC (not verified)

> in my country most people use the same word for ZIP as in English. And in every country people that know fashion a bit call it zip too. Ask your gf :)

The funny thing is that in Turkey if I say zip the same way as it is pronounced in English my gf would think I talk about a/my penis :-)

by Anonymous (not verified)

ok, but even if the icon represent a vagina you will have to call the file a ZIP file :) isn't fun?

All of this is pointless. Mac OS X which is the most usable OS around uses the same metaphor.

by Carlo (not verified)

You defnitely have a point. The classic package together with the known .akro.nym of the archive is the better choice, as it's more universal than a zipper.

by Youssef (not verified)

ZIP files were called so because it is similar to a "zip". The most important thing is what is a zip not how it is called. But personally, I think that the ZIP icon is simply bad. You have to keep the same concept for all archives (GZIP, RAR, ACE, TAR, ...) . I suggest a yellow 3D box with a colored band, each color for each archive type and small letters written on the band.

by anonymous (not verified)

yes, danny and the translators are doing an excellent job with the digest
thanks denny!

by Leo S (not verified)

Hmm, is it just me or is it a bit dissapointing to see Clarence's comments on the paint engine in Qt4? "This will eventually allow us to drop Arthur/Qt4 and use a proper paint engine"

I don't have much experience with it, but I thought that the Arthur paint system was supposed to be much improved over the old Qt3 system. It would seem to me that an app like kolourpaint is exactly the sort of thing Arthur was designed for.

by superstoned (not verified)

Indeed, I wondered about the same thing. Sounds really bad... Can't the Trolls fix it for 4.2, or maybe Clarence can send em a fix...

by Fred (not verified)

What does it mean? A wine database?

by B (not verified)

No, it a module to configure WINE, as in the Windows (Non-)Emulator.

by Nick Grinyer (not verified)

Doesn't the press release say that they renamed amaroK to AmaroK, not Amarok? Shouldn't the K be capitalized then? "Misspellings ruin our brand"

Uh oh =P

Thought I might point that out =P

by AC (not verified)

What press release do you mean?
If you mean the commit digest, well read again :o)
It's Amarok now, not amaroK or AmaroK (nor AmarOk etc..)

by Nick Grinyer (not verified)

Goodness me, I MUST be seeing things....I'm sure there was a misspelling somewhere. The press release I was reffering to was the one that the dev team at AmaroK released about the name change, and I thought I saw a typo on this commit digest about that...

Nevermind =P I tend to see lots of things at 3 in the morning.