In this week's KDE Commit-Digest: Plasma continues to mature, with improvements to the Twitter applet (and the creation of a complementary data engine), and the adoption of a common visual style for Plasmoids, and the integration of support for SuperKaramba applets through the creation of the SuperKaramba Plasmoid. More work on the re-implementation of the Magnatune interface within the new music store framework, and integration of the recent Plasma work for Amarok 2. More work on KBlocks, whilst KMines and KLines become the first KDE applications to take advantage of the recently-developed KPixmapCache. More work on colour mixing in Krita. Import of Habitat, a realistic interaction environment, to playground/edu. A return to work on Cokoon, a framework for widget and window decoration creation. RSIBreak, KCall, and the Kickoff menu start to be ported to KDE 4. KDE 4.0 Beta 1 is tagged for release.
Comments
yeah.. i fully agree
That is only the plasma target not the actual window-deco. As the screenshot shows it is going to be plain grey, without any wow-effect, just plain boring grey and nothing appealing. Even less usability as it does not provide sharp contras such as Cleanlooks (http://xmelegance.org/devel/qthtml/gallery-cleanlooks.html), just blury grey.
I agree though that criticism is not useful. There will be an end-product which will suit the artist's taste and that's it. That's all an artist can do. If one runs out of ideas an artist cannot simply force himself to have new ones.
If the artist likes the screenshot above, (have a look at the floating buttons [didn't aaron at akademy tell everybody that one should not put things into an GUI that are not realistic?]) what's there left to say.
The plasma-design however is fantastic because it is innovative and stylish != grey. I am not sure about other languages but at least in the ones I know grey has a very distinct meaning which is very different from anthracite (plasma).
BTW: If one is not allowed to discuss and critisice it, it is not art.
I sadly have to agree with you. When I first saw the style, I just thought that it wasn't my cup of tea. It was just "too much". "But hey", I thought, "it's just work in process and doesn't have to reflect the end result. Better wait to comment on small details and sound negative".
The style is now indeed cleaner, for example the buttons have been redesigned. However, there are things that I still dislike. I wonder if the artists are interested to know why, or should I wait?
waiting will be the best thing to do right now. As soon as the style is more completely implemented, some feedback can be given. Wait till next beta...
Will do, thanks for answering. :)
What's the current status of KDE 4.0 builds for Windows? Is there a site I can download the current builds to give them a try?
Thanks
http://www.kdelibs.com
You can try the the kdewin installer. New snapshot released recently too.
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-windows&m=118525850911691&w=2
how to install programs with it (like konqueror) i've installed dbus and some stuff with it.. but the kdelibs and such stuff wasn't available in the list
i also wasn't able to found a howto which describes what to do
I'm reluctant to draw the comparison, but does habitat smell of Microsoft BOB to anyone else?
Not really - Bob was a desktop shell, whereas Habitat appears to be an educational app for very young kids.
Though I am aware of the existence of Microsoft BOB (abandoned more than a decade ago), I would say that Habitat is similar only in the way that Konqueror is similar to Internet Explorer, KWord is like Microsoft Word, and so on.
I've never seen Microsoft BOB in action, and it is not the inspiration or guiding example for Habitat.
Danny
Personally, I think that it is quite a bit like BOB, but I am probably one of the few who thinks that it had potential. In particular, with the new 3d graphics AND desktop, I think that the idea is heading there. And while I would not want it for me (heck, I prefer the CLI for too many things), I think that something like this would work great for my mom (nearly 70).
Interesting that dfaure has the highest Buzz rating even though he's been on holiday for the last few weeks ;)
Must be because everyone keeps referring to him now, instead of approaching him on irc or email :)
Q: "Why is that thing still not fixed"
A: "you're the 100nt that asks, just wait until David comes back from holidays"
*grin*
hm.. i wonder about the work on the interface of konqueror.. will there be changes? every commit i'm looking for changes in konqueror.. but i can't find them... is there work going on beside the changes with the dolphin backend and such stuff... i mean really konqueror only code or improvements, kplugin integration or such stuff.
does anybody know about this?
Understand you're only seeing like 0.5% of the commits in the digest, each week... So it's very well possible you missed some work on konqi. And yes, there has been work on it, at least some usability stuff and integration of the Dolphin Kpart.
And I have a vague memory of someone working on the extensions system, but I might be mistaken there... ???
> Understand you're only seeing like 0.5% of the commits in the
> digest, each week.
Most of the interesting user-visible changes seem to find their way there. If interesting developments start happening in Konqueror I am sure they will be featured in the digest.
Konqueror in KDE 4 today looks pretty much the same as it did in KDE 3.5, except that the file management view is better because it uses Dolphin's view.
The HTML and JavaScript engines are part of kdelibs and they have seen much work.
More like 15% ;)
Danny
Sorry, got my numbers wrong then. Indeed, less than 3000 commits, over 100 in the digest... wow. I need to work on my math skills...
Thanks very much guys who are working on Cokoon.
this is what people wanted for a long time!
Dekorator was a temporary solution to fix this on window decorations, but it was not a good solution.
Thanks guys!
For what it looks it will be the definitive theme creator, looks really a lot of fun!
New oxygen style is ugly, previous was much better. (tabs, groupboxes, buttons)
No, it *is* not ugly, *you* find it ugly. That's something completely different. It also empowers you, the one with the problem, to actually address your problem by comming up with something better, or at least, something *you* find better. Who knows, others may agree...
Just crying out that you find it ugly isn't really constructive, don't you think?
Yeah, think so too, also there is much too little contrast, i liked it e.g. the old groubboxes which had a brighter color than the background. Will this come back in the final version?
Apart from that, it's nice too see early screenshots of the new style, we should rather be happy about this, than complaining since the style will naturally evolve until the final version.
I'm not a fan of it either, but I couldn't think of particularly specific criticism, nor would it matter this late in the game. If you have specific input such as "feature X could be improved with Y and Z" then please speak up.
However, the above comment really doesn't help anything.
Here is just MHO on the style:
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture32hf5.png
Title bar:
So, White *can* be your enemy, as you can see at the kate-open-file-dialog. Maybe the darker edge on the side line should also go on the top? Or maybe it should all be a bit less white?
The corners are not rounded but they look nice and sharp. If you look to long at them the corners of the corners appear to actually stick out a bit, especially on a dark background.
The titlebar buttons are nice and simple and have a functional size. But somehow the also have a "bulky round" feeling about them that doesn't go well with the oxygen icons but probably goes very well with a more rounded icon set. Do these buttons have to look like buttons or can they blend in better with the title bar, showing only the symbols?
Menu/Button bar:
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture30pf3.png
The spacing looks nice, it is not to crowded. Maybe you can even narrow the space between the menu row and the icon row.
The background image is far more creative then regular grey or gradient. It gives the otherwise boring background a more playfull look. But how light the shades may be it also looks a bit unorganised and distracting. But of couse this tension is exactly what art is all about.
The location bar:
What can I say, it's oke. The lighter backspace and enter buttons were long over due.
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture36pu6.png
Tabs:
I really like the sharpness of the tabs, they fit very well with the sharpness of the oxygen icons. Although at first I was unshure about the "unnatural long tab look" I feel it isn't unpleasant to the eye.
Crumble path:
Looks realy nice.
Sliders:
The horizontal sliders "places" and "information" look a bit out of place. They appear not to be consistent with the title bar buttons, they are both round and light but that is about it. Their marble look doesn't come back in any other element. Also, only judging from these screenshots, I am not totally shure what they are for.
The vertical sliders do not have that refined look that you would expect to acompany the oxygen icons. They are a bit bulky and their square look bites the other round elements.
The vertical slider buttons are not consistant with the vertical slider buttons. Maybe for a good reason, but I can not judge that from the screenshots.
Columns/Rows:
I think the row seperators of the left big buttons does not really exist but is coused by the gradient. It does look a but confusing.
The row seperators of the "home content folder" look clear and nice. The hard black is in big contract to the otherwise soft style, but again goes well with the sharp oxygen icons.
The column seperators of the "apps folder" uses the same dark colours as the "home folder" seperators. I don't think the seperation of the columns and the inversion of the selected column is necessary (sorted column is already clear by the triangle). Maybe you can experiment with it, because the hard contrasting colours put a lot of emphasis on these elements, maybe unification makes it softer.
The slide rails for vertical and horizontal are different (not consistent), with the horizotal one "information" almost looking like a needle (actually I'm not shure it is a slider), these are unpleasant associations you might want to avoid. But as the seperator for the "Type:folder" area it looks great.
Drag points:
This must be me, but I never understood why these have to be visible all the time. First thing I always do is to set them to fade out and only appear on mouse over. I suppose this is also how they are supposed to behave and they are only visible for feed back now. If this is not the case then I think they are a bit to dominant.
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture32hf5.png
Area borders:
This is so much better than in most KDE3 styles. No longer boxes in boxes in boxes. No more big bulky lines every where.
Buttons:
The big buttons with text look a bit ruff but also clean and simple. They do fit in but they very much stand out as seperate elements. Maybe you can make it look like it is not glued on to there but is part of and elevated from the background.
The smaller buttons with text are a bit to small to hold the text and or icons nicely. The icon border sometimes falls over the button border. The text sometimes doesn't look centered. I'm shure this will be fixed easily and soon.
I have the feeling the artist is trying to find a balance to the sharp and realistic oxygen icons by creating a soft style. I really like the idea, though you can see it is still work in progress. The softer style also makes that items easily look fluffy and big, this can be a real pit fall. I can imagine it is very hard to find the correct balance with all the relevant factors. But I trust the artist to work all this out, things like this just take a lot of time, because it has to grow. I hope the artist stays committed and motivated. It takes a lot of energy, creativity and guts to create a new style promissing style with lots of people watching over your shoulder. Good luck!
As opposed to it's parent, I think the comment above actually *is* usefull and constructive. I would think the author of the style would appreciate getting this in his mailbox, because it might be missed here in the Dot. Maybe you should email him your comments?
i missed monday so much i wanted to break SOMETHING, so i broke all the plasma widgets. i rock! ;P
--Aaron
+1
+1
and the winner for ranks 2-5...
> Aaron J. Seigo committed changes in /trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace:
> insomnia strikes. i figure i could:
> * lay there staring at the ceiling
> * play games on pogo
> * fix ebn issues
>
> one of those things is at least mildly productive.
> Aaron J. Seigo committed a change to /trunk/playground/base/plasma/applets/digital-clock/clock.cpp:
> make this not quite so ass big. btw, having offsets (like borders) and not
> using a constant to reference them when doing manual layouting is amazingly
> silly. what happens when the offsets change? yeah, you get to redo all the
> numbers ... by hand. there's these things called computers...
> Aaron J. Seigo committed changes in /trunk/playground/base/plasma:
> split timetracker engine and applet apart and put the engine with the engines in engine/
>
> i love the word "engine". i love lamp. i love desk!
> Aaron J. Seigo committed changes in /trunk/extragear/utils/kpager:
> kpager gets a new home. loverly.
Yay! looking for easter eggs in June. I can only be curious how April must be like :-)
Let me remind everyone that this is the *President* of KDE eV. It's great that the KDE community can allow this culture.
you mean anti-culture
I never noticed before, but the html anchors in the contents table don't work.
I've rewritten the table code (and removed 3.3kb of PHP ;)), fixing the hyperlink issue, and also a bug where icons were shown for sections that did not exist in that digest issue.
Thanks,
Danny
OK, if KDE uses Subversion the same way everyone else does, this means KDE 4.0 beta 1 is now available (just not packaged and propagated to the mirrors). Is this correct?
OK, I checked SVN, and the beta (version 3.92) has been available for 2 days already! Where's the announcement on kde.org? :/
Easy to get it though:
svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/tags/KDE/3.92 kde4-beta1
Be warned, however, that this downloads the entirety of KDE v3.92 (all modules). Don't kill their servers for no reason!
It is tagged, but we give the packagers a week to package (and I'm still writing the announcement...)
It'll get online Thursday, officially.
as i am in work (somewhere in the Algerian desert, where at 7 am, it's already 37 °) all is the PC are under windows, and i keep watching my 5 opensuse cd, without the right to install it.
so please guys, can you make some screeshots ok KDE svn, just to see the progress made.
shit!!! people are in holidays, and i am stuck here, fu.. work.
I can imagine your need ;-)
But as KDE 4 Beta 1 will be released soon, and at least OpenSuse will have a livecd, it's very unlikely we won't have a osdir screenshot tour within days ;-)
So, don't worry, be patient.
BTW the release announcement is quite verbose, and has screenshots :D
hehe thanks dude, grrr, two days waiting for the official announcement !!! but i am not holding my breath as long as kicker is still alive :-)
"I miss the golden days of 2006 and all the "Plasma seems still to exist only in /dev/imagination", "Most of KDE 4 is just vaporware", "Is nothing but a copy of Apple's dash board with some variations", "I'm just saying that it isn't *innovative*" posts."
Someone was missing those days, I think he could have enough fun now!
dont worry, it will be there for 4.0 release :)
come on, i did not say that, all the story is that in the previous alpha, kicker was so broken that,i got the envy to kick the ass of his maintainer.
in last summer, i keep repeating the word plasma to a friend, and when he asked me, what the hell is plasma, all i told him, it will be cool, neat, although i did not got a clue about it, i had and still have faith in developers.
the maintainer of kicker would be me. would you like a fixed kicker for the betas or a replacement for it in plasma? you pick. ;)
sorry, MR President, i would prefer a replacement of kicker in beta, but as you have only two hands and just one brain, it's too much for you, it seems even that you don't sleep.
thanks
Lovely discussion ;-)
You guys made me smile :D
here thay are, happy ctrl+c / ctrl+v ;)
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture25ei7.png
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture26hd6.png
[http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture27fj0.png
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture28th6.png
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture29np8.png
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture30pf3.png
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture31ws4.png
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture32hf5.png
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture33bs6.png
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture34hz3.png
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture35ez0.png
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture36pu6.png
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture37fs2.png
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture38ga0.png
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture39tf0.png
> here thay are, happy ctrl+c / ctrl+v ;)
Nah, klipper URL detection to the rescue!
I'm sorry, but the Oxygen style is the most god-awful style I've ever seen, even worse than most GTK+ styles. There's way too much extra spacing, there's no differentiation between widgets and widget types and...it just looks terrible. I hope this is a *very* rough draft.
Man, does no one have basic manners anymore? Fine, you don't like the shots you've seen of the (early, still in the process of being rewritten) style. You've even got some actual points about spacing to make. So why do you have to use language like 'god awful'?
I mean, do you do anything creative yourself? Even cook or anything else that requires you to have to put something in front of someone else and then be judged on the results? How on earth would you feel if your efforts were judged as harshly as you seem to feel fit to judge others in front of potentially thousands of people?
Nothing wrong with comments, nothing wrong with having opinions, but sheesh, why can't people who are presumably here because they're interested in the project at least manage some basic standards of politeness?