In this week's KDE Commit-Digest: A Sonnet-based spellcheck runner, and icons on the desktop in Plasma. Continued work revamping KBugBuster, more work towards KDevelop 4. GetHotNewStuff support for downloading maps in Marble. Image and audio dockers in Parley. The start of Glimpse, a new scanning application based on libksane. The beginnings of a generic resource display framework for NEPOMUK. Various work in KHTML. Music Service configuration work, and the integration of last.fm code in Amarok 2.0. Printing work in KOffice. A Sybase database driver for Kexi, panorama work in Krita, and ODF work in KChart. Kompare becomes usable for KDE 4.0, and gets a new maintainer. The confusingly-named game KWin4 is renamed KFourInLine. Trolltech-supported Phonon backends for all major platforms (Quicktime 7, DirectShow 9 and GStreamer) are imported to KDE SVN. Read the rest of the Digest here.
Comments
Great to know :-)
A pity that this is not a magical cure... Nevertheless I am looking forward to my first KDE4 desktop. Thank you for your hard work!
Someone tell me that the nightmares I have about KDE becoming a security and stability disaster because of this single process access to everything design is because I ate cabbage for supper.
Please.
Derek
it doesn't have "access to everything". that's why krunner was split out, kwin still exists on its own, plasma and krunner auto-restart on crashes, we have scripted applets. etc, etc.
in kde3 we had kdesktop and kicker. now we have plasma and krunner. and in kde3 there were no scripted applets. and kdesktop wouldn't auto-restart (though kicker would).
I know that this is on of "our" best "weapon" to attack Windows but let's face the truth: downloaded content is at the very own user's risk. Fullstop.
Security bugs only imply remote exploitable attacks (such as, I send you a particulary forge email which triggers a bug that let remote code execution). But a downloaded plasma applet, dashboard applet, vista gadget or what else are just downloaded software... it doesn't matter if they bring you local machine down or if they start to do a perfectly legal (to the system) action like sending personal data over the net or starting a spam run. IT security is different from 10 years ago.
The performance it is even better with the latest nvidia driver 169.07, and also fixes a bug related to Qt ARGB scrolling which affects Plasma.
Hi there, i'm still using the RC2 with Kubuntu gutsy, and kwin really impressed me featurewise.
But with RC2 and the kubuntu packages (don't know what part is to blame there) it's just unusable slow, even though i upgraded my XP2800+, 1Gig RAM to a Geforce 6600GT... hell, i can play FarCry on high settings, but kwin4 is like 5fps with it. I really hope that for the 4.0 release i won't have to use compiz.
Its nice to see something about Sonnet.just...currently Spell Checking doesnt works, so is there any plan to provide a working spell checking for 4.0?
What exactly do you mean? Integration in Konqui, for example? Sonnet works fine and the spell check runner works, at least using English. Haven't tried any other languages though.
IIUC, the entire desktop is now Plasma. :-(
IMHO, Plasma is all hype and very little substance. Perhaps it just turned out to be a bigger job than anticipated (Murphy's Law will always apply). However, we have 3 weeks to release and much of the functionality in the KDE3 DeskTop is still missing.
Icons the DeskTop don't work yet. Perhaps it would be better to report a feature after it is finished rather than when is is barely started.
If you place files in the Desktop folder, they do appear on the desktop.
The size setting in SystemSettings doesn't work.
The text under them is too large and is not the font selected in SystemSettings for 'Desktop'.
NOTE: these aren't the only instance where Plasma doesn't use system settings.
If I drag a file icon to the DeskTop, I get a message box which says: "This object could not be created"
Dragging a URL to the DeskTop has the same result.
I don't know how I would try to create an icon to start an application on the DeskTop. Creating an icon using the Add Widget function doesn't seem to be ready to use yet -- is simply doesn't work. I can't drag a menu item to the DeskTop -- actually can't drag a menu item period.
I don't want this to be taken negatively. I am just reporting what I found. I hope that it is finished in time for the release. For now, all I can say is that I am very disappointed and would rather have KDeskTop and Kicker.
Hey, I had a little graphic done in STG (scalable text graphics) to show what's happening :
Koolness
^
|
| x ------
| x | ???? |
| x x ------
| x |
| x x |
| x x |
| x x x |
| x x | |
| x | | |
|x | | |
| | | |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>time
KDE1 \ KDE2 \ KDE3 \ KDE4
Where koolness is a balance between featurefullness, bugfreeness, speed, eyecandy ...
It's likely we will have to wait for 4.1 or 4.2 to use KDE4 fulltime fullspeed.
Ooops, since STG is not that standard, you may have to copy-past the graph in, for instance, KWrite (tested) to show it displayed correctly.
Just a little question...How much time did you spent(/waste?) to create this?
(btw, i like the idea of STG so much!)
Hy.
About one minute and a half.
Unfortunately, STG needs to keep every spaces to display the cross x aligned verticaly. But puting it in a HTML frame seems to reduce any number of spaces to one. So my graph is all fucked up.
I think reworking thing ( 20 seconds ) may render a lot better thought. Here I go :
Koolness
^
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~~~------~~~~
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| ???? |~~~
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~~------~~~~
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~x~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~~~~~~~~~~x~~~~~~x~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~~~~~~x~x~~~~~~x~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~~~x~~~x~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~x~~~~~|~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|x~~~~~~|~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>time
~~KDE1~~|~KDE2~~|~~~~~~~~~KDE3~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~KDE4~~~~~~~
Let's see the preview now....
Yeepee, this time, things are nearly aligned, and the graph may be read.
Oh, and I think that STG was caled ASCII art, but it's ancient time, when people saying they where computer savy still knew that text was made of ASCII caracters (or not), they didn't just knew how to donwnload the last Quake no CD crakc and click the exe to apply it and then call themselves computer experts ^^.
Well, here is a tip :
Copy and past the STG in Kwrite. press CTRL+R or find the replace tool in menu.
and replace ~ by one space. You may see the graph more clearly.
This is an old cryptography technic. STG is realy full featured, isn't it ^^
It's not like it has been said a thousands/milions/billions time, but 4.0 has never been intended to be a "full" replacement for 3.5. There are area where it is better, and they are features that have disappear and will come back. If you can't live without some of them, just wait. 3.5 is still a very good KDE release. (and no releasing 4.0 when it is a "full" replacement of 3.5 will just be stupid as it would prevent people who are happy with the feature set of 4.0 to use it)
"IMHO, Plasma is all hype and very little substance."
"I don't want this to be taken negatively."
How these statements can be combined in one post is definitely beyond me.
don't bother!
he's a wanker
> Icons the DeskTop don't work yet. Perhaps it would be better to report a
> feature after it is finished rather than when is is barely started.
That's not the way the Digest works - the KDE Commit-Digest is a report of the current (and so naturally, often in-progress or unfinished) state of development.
Danny
"Work started on ..."
Is very clear.
Do you realize that most of your complaints affect areas that are under active development (check panel-devel)?
I think that the point is that they aren't finished yet.
> Plasma is all hype and very little substance
oh man, now you're not on my christmas list anymore! and i had picked out something really nice for you.
seriously though .. you're complaining that a system that is designed not as a host for a "traditional" desktop layout but which can, with very little code actually, support such a thing is ... "all hype and very little substance"? heh. i'd love to see kdesktop do 1/10th of what plasma is doing. then we can talk about substance.
btw, they couple of people working on the trad support stuff are new developers .. i'm just coaching/mentoring .. if need be i'll step in to get it done but i'd like to let them get it sorted out and learn.
> The size setting in SystemSettings doesn't work.
fixed.
> The text under them is too large and is not the font selected in
> SystemSettings for 'Desktop'.
you didn't even mention the real problems with the text under the icons. you really suck as a vapid nitkpicker. i was all ready to give you an A+ for opening with some less than glamorous ranting (always a classy start) and then .. this. *sigh* i'm sure you can do better next time! ;-P
(no, i'm not going to give away what those problems are as that would remove all the fun for you! a trip to b.k.o might help you out though! and yes, we'll be fixing those issues too)
> NOTE: these aren't the only instance where Plasma
> doesn't use system settings.
other examples?
> If I drag a file icon to the DeskTop, I get a message box which says:
> "This object could not be created"
already fixed. we have been doing some clean ups with the applets, the names and mimetypes, etc... just hadn't gotten to the drop code yet.
so your big vapour complaints are a couple of bugs that the fixes for ranged from 1-4 lines of code each. not only are you not on my xmas list for this year, i'm not getting you anything for valentines either now.
> For now, all I can say is that I am very disappointed
> and would rather have KDeskTop and Kicker.
then use them. no one is forcing you to use plasma. if you can't see beyond a few point in time bugs, then i really couldn't be bothered to try and help you.
btw, dot.kde.org isn't b.k.o or [email protected]. it's lucky i decided to read the comments here today.
"seriously though .. you're complaining that a system that is designed not as a host for a "traditional" desktop layout but which can, with very little code actually, support such a thing is ..."
To litle code maybe but till now plasma can't get in shape and won't be in shape for long.
Lets get real here, plasma is not the holy grail eather.
> but till now plasma can't get in shape and won't be in shape for long.
+1 uninformed
> plasma is not the holy grail eather.
can't argue with a strawman, can i?
"+1 uninformed"
The Release candidates and daily builds are informative enougth. aren't they?
"can't argue with a strawman, can i?"
Lets play the victim here, ain't that your favorite game?
> The Release candidates and daily builds are informative enougth. aren't they?
no, 4.0 will be.
> Lets play the victim here, ain't that your favorite game?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
have a good day. preferably somewhere else. =)
"no, 4.0 will be."
And what excuse will you made when 4.0 is released then? 4.1? and whene 4.1 is released? 4.2?
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem"
Links that I already read interestingh both.
I got one for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride (arrogance?)
"have a good day. preferably somewhere else. =)"
Wow, that is something I can quote from now on thx =).
"And what excuse will you made when 4.0 is released then? 4.1? and whene 4.1 is released? 4.2?"
Then you should wait until those times come.
> And what excuse will you made when 4.0 is released then?
i never said the rc was going to be "informative enough" to use your phrase. it's not a moving target excuse.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride (arrogance?)
you accuse me of arrogance for standing up against ignorance mixed with rudeness? please.
Unsurprisingly Aaron won that one, I wonder when people will learn not to pick a fight with someone much better at it than them
LOL indeed ;-)
He's pretty good at arguments. Of course, to save my selfrespect, I always attribute that to the fact that he's a natively US ENGLISH speaker (but deep in my hart I know he's just f***ing smart).
Actually Aaron is very good in conception and understanding of structure of issue at point. A corrollary of that is that he is good at arguments, understanding and organising.
"i never said the rc was going to be "informative enough" to use your phrase. it's not a moving target excuse."
Then you confused the meaning of RC, but lets forget about it now that you say 4.0 will be, I just wonder what excuse will you invent by then.
"you accuse me of arrogance for standing up against ignorance mixed with rudeness? please."
Yes, I acuse you of arrogance, you call people complaining of plasma stability or people not putting plasma in a pedestal and looks like it makes you angry, And that's not being ignorant, we give our opinion based in what we have, we use and see, but you call us ignorants because we cannot see what doesn't exist, now rudness? come on, you are the only rude here, to defensive.
Div, are you smart enough to be embarrassed by your little performance here?
Aaron, I don't know how you manage to keep be polite to a clown like this
>And that's not being ignorant, we give our opinion based in what we have, we use and see,
Imagine two applications. One looks and works fine. The other one doesn't. Is the second one worse? You can't say that unless you had a look at the code. The second one might be infinitely better - but it's behaving badly because of ONE line of code which contains a bug. Fix that one line, and the app goes beyond what the first one could even dream.
Get my point?
Sure, plasma doesn't look very finished. But unless you had a look at the code, you can't really judge it. So wait with criticizing it until it's released - at that time the basics should work.
And even then - 4.0.1 can fix some more oneliners ;-)
Hello Jos,
everybody can tell from what has been said by now, that Plasma will be virtually untested in that first release.
If Aaron thinks that people can test it for the first time only when it's release time, when do you think the first release candidate can be done?
Is there something about Plasma that is making it super-trivial to test and code, and so easy to get right with the many configurations and situations there can be, that no time is needed to decide if it can be released? No release candidates are needed for that part of KDE.
But hell, Google is making a release party. That has terminated any possibility of delay by a week or two. Say it ain't so.
In the end, releases are overrated. Lets just wait for when Plasma is finished.
Yours,
Kay
Yes, Kay, the fact we have a release party contributes greatly to this issue. Plasma won't be tested much, won't be incredibly stable. Unfortunately that's simply true...
I must say that im tired of see how KDE developers bash people who don't like plasma because is unstable and is not the big deal eather calling them ignorants.
News flash, they are normal users not ignorants, be nice with them, if you can't then ignore them at least, but please don't look like a complete ass.
Actually, plasma IS the holy grail! And Aaron Seigo is a god. :-P He's writing the darn thing; he knows what he means when he says "with very little code, can support such a thing."
Hello Aaron,
no you do read these comments every time and we love you for that. Really. I just hope you don't get the idea that this comment was representative of anything or gets you depressed.
But seriously, do you think there was a historical necessity that Plasma was finished last? Is there an expectation within you that testers of Plasma are not let down by RC2?
I personally am not going to be disappointed, by however incomplete the Plasma code is. And few people have that right, as they didn't contribute to it. And no, whining comments do NOT count as helping.
But as a community member, I am sure going to be disappointed, if that unfinished state of Plasma is going to take away from the pride that every KDE developer deserves.
But guys, it's Free Software, but one big enough that "it's released when it's ready" can no longer apply. So we are seeing RCs with core functionality that didn't approach beta level yet. And probably with a lot of focus indeed, the final release will not be entirely unfinished. But no doubt it about, soon after release, one of the next releases, Plasma will be ready and completed in a minor release. And everybody will rejoice. And this discussion will be ended. And everybody will be proud again.
Aaron, why not just skip fast forward and ignore the fruitless phase of discussion now. Now the only thing that matters is code, not dot comments, and those that chose not to help months ago, should be ashamed or silent.
Yours,
Kay
I have to agree with some points about plasma:
- too much hype (this can be told about KDE4 as a whole)
- plasma is late, very late
BUT, big BUT, I've already understood that KDE4 will be actually just a technology preview, so I don't mind anymore ;)
That would be OK if it is released as KDE-4Preview rather than KDE-4.0.0
And after that, KDE 4.1.x should be released as KDE-4MayWorkForSomeAndMayNotWorkForOthers.
Then, KDE 4.2.x should be KDE-4Stable.
KDE 4.3.x should be KDE-4ReallyStableNow.
And so on and so forth.
Sounds familiar. Isn't that how software releases usually work?
Yes, but users don't like it.
Users would like for 4.0.0 to work 100%, but at least, 4.0.1 shouldn't have major problems.
Only the naive believes in 100% and Santa Claus.
Hey, thats it. It's Christmas and they want their free toy for Christmas.
Thats why they are crying. Stupid kids.
>IMHO, Plasma is all hype and very little substance. Perhaps it just turned out >to be a bigger job than anticipated (Murphy's Law will always apply). However, >we have 3 weeks to release and much of the functionality in the KDE3 DeskTop is >still missing.
Let's get one thing straight, KDE 4.0.0 will *NOT HAVE ALL THE KDE3 desktop functionality, we're trying to get the basics done here first please =)
Yes, plasma is a BIG project and by far, there is a lot of work going on.
>Icons the DeskTop don't work yet. Perhaps it would be better to report a >feature after it is finished rather than when is is barely started.
They will work, can you just have patience please? Don't expect full functionality on the icons however. I don't know the status of the desktop plasmoid.
>If you place files in the Desktop folder, they do appear on the desktop.
See above.
>I don't want this to be taken negatively. I am just reporting what I found. I >hope that it is finished in time for the release. For now, all I can say is >that I am very disappointed and would rather have KDeskTop and Kicker.
While it's nice that you point out issues. Accusing the KDE developers (and I am one of them) of '[fill in KDE4 component/Plasma] is all hype and very little substance' does little to motivate people.
Shawn.
How many of you that complain a lot about things like "KDE4 is a Hype, plasma isn't a holy grail, blablabla" have actually taken a LOOK of what's being done? Have you looked at the code? Read the wikis? Visited the irc channels? Subscribed to any mail list (like panel-devel, for instance)?
Some kind of questions the are read here really show that some people aren't really even prepared to make criticism! If these people even had taken a little closer look at KDE now they would have to chance the way they make questions.
KDE is in a really great shape now, considering things like numbers of people working on this project, the number of INNOVATIVE THINGS being done, etc...
Have any of you even taken a look at plasmarc file or plasma-appletrc to have a tiny knowledge of how plasma works? (they're usually at $HOME/.kde4/share/config).
If you are not the kind of person who research before talking PLEASE be more polite when making questions or critics because it is very possible that you don't know what you are talking about!!!!
This is a COMMIT-DIGEST forum, so it is VERY important that you KNOW what you are talking about ... We're not at an Orkut Community named "KDE is a hype"...
KDE is on release candidate, and release candidates are NOT ready yet...
You don't have to be a coder, you don't have to know how to make programs in C++,how to draw an SVG etc... you just have to be polite!!
You developers REALLY deserve a A++++++ for your work! I don't think I would bear all these negative (nonsense and uncontructive) opinions... The will you have to make KDE really a great thing is sometimes unbelieveble!! Thank you VERY MUCH!
Sorry for my English, still learning and it's terrible! Hope you can understand what I REALLY MEAN...
Well, Jesus turned water into wine, fed 5 thousand with a few loaves, healed the sick and raised the dead and do you remember what they did with him in the end? Yes we human beings are damn ungrateful!
I say that Plasma is much better than Jesus. At least I get to play with Plasma on my machine *for real*, whereas that Jesus thing belongs in the same category as Santa Claus and the Leprechauns. And when was the last time a Leprechaun made your desktop look 1337?
Oddly Christmas makes some people pissed. ^^''