In this week's KDE Commit-Digest: Custom legend entries and the beginnings of the Mercator map projection (and evidence of exciting other things to come) in Marble. Support for multiple online dictionaries and the start of a vocabulary Plasma applet in Parley. Kross scripting engines (supporting various scripting languages) in Plasma, and the much-anticipated return of the ability to resize the panel. Support for multiple "Picture of the Day" providers in the "Picture Frame" Plasma applet. More work on the redesign (code and visuals) of KWorldClock. Work on theming improvements across KDE games. Image information now displayed in fullscreen mode in Gwenview. Continued maintenance work in the Kooka scanning application. Support for HTML signatures in KMail. Continued development on the IRC Kopete plugin. Work on snap guides and a threaded tile backend in KOffice. A migration plugin for Sybase ASE in Kexi. Various efficiency improvements in KLinkStatus, KGet, and some KDE games. KDE 4.0.1 (bugfixes) is tagged for release. Read the rest of the Digest here.
Comments
I'm sure that will make plenty of people happy.
The openSuse team is doing an excellent job.
Also big thanks to you and the rest of the KDE team for working so fast to get more and more features added + bugfixes so rapidly :)
Hi,
first of all, thanks for KDE 4 ;-).
Now to the subject. Why do we need a taskbar, if we have Plasma with Dashboard and/or KWin with nice 3D-Effects for switching Tasks? IMHO we don't need a "Taskbar". Remove it. Or do I oversee somethink?
bye
frank
P. S.: sorry, for the english ;-)
Feel free to remove it if you want. ;) I think there are some tutorials on the internet for removing the panel. The beauty of Plasma is that you can do whatever you want with your desktop.
I don't think that the majority of KDE users would want to go without it, though.
thanks to plasma and the new panel you are free to remove the taskbar whenever you want (or put it somewhere else, or have 10 tasbars or whatever)
Btw this is also true for Kicker.
But with Kicker, you can't remove the panel outright. There's always got to be one.
Anyway, the task bar is there for people that use the mouse more: if your hand's already on the mouse, it should be faster than using the keyboard. It's also good for giving a familiar environment to people, and showing possibility to switch tasks without seeing the window to complete newbs.
I almost agree, but some UI elements are best kept always visible, and not only on dashboard. In particular the systray which displays useful notifications and features. The clock also might be best visible.
In the late days of KDE 3, I had no more task bar (well in fact I had a not-so-useful autohidable avant-window-navigator). I choose to have instead a minimalist top bar with the systray, the clock, and the application menu (à la MacOS) and some other less important elements (like the K menu). No wasted space, since that bar had no free pixel and contained only useful stuff.
Well, I like keeping space for things that matter (the currently used application). In KDE4.0, that big unresizable panel hurts me, but well, it will soon become more customizable.
That's exactly what I do myself. We have to admit that Apple got it right.
Hey, me too! With my shallow-monitor lapotop, vertical space is a premium, and I found I've never used the taskbar anyway... so it had to go. It is now an autohide panel on the right... I'd like to geet rid of that too. Somehow, the menu panel cannot be the only panel anymore. I think it used to work, but no more in KDE 3.5.
personally I have a taskbar with the current desktop's windows on my panel, and a taskbar with all windows on my desktop. :) I've gone back to having the systray on the panel again.
Have it both ways: Auto-hide.
>>Or do I oversee somethink
... dude. I'm german myself, but that's an embarrassing one. Seriously.
http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=en&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sec...
You wanted to say "Or do i MISS somethinGGG".
Or "overlook", which is based on the same idea as the German word, and actually means almost the same thing (unlike "oversee" which is indeed something completely different).
Yea, add other options for the taskbar.
Have people be able to customize it. (make it thinner..)
as I said before: LONG LIVE CUSTOMIZATION!!!
Somebody please post videos on YouTube on how to do it for newbies.
Also please post feature show-off's.
-Max
No Way! KDE Taskbar rules!
for example, in KDE3 I used to have it in upper-left corner, going down as a simple list, which comes on top when i navigate to upper-left corner, without any preview widows or stuff. having sometimes 20-30 windows open (Matlab and lots of Matlab graphs + KDevelop + 2-3 Konsoles, + 2-3 Konquerors + Kolourpaint + Kontact + Kopete + something else) is my usual desktop. and -- i never use window grouping -- having ALL windwos listed and sorted by applications is very handy and accessible (see attach).
The most admiring feature for me is... rolling MouseWheel over such taskbar -- for example -- while working in Matlab it allows me to navigate numerous open Figures very quickly!
Using manual plasma_appletsrc edit i tried to make something similar in KDE 4.0.1, but Vertical Taskbar looks awfull there -- it's items tend to be 200px high!, and then, after 30th window, they open 2nd column. I dont want to see large application icons in taskbar -- i preffer to see window titles' list instead! Even if there will be no GUI for configuring this, as it was used to be in KDE3 (I use Extended Taskbar there) -- I'd like to have ability to configure it manually in config files!
I like the taskbar, but it's not revolutionary by any means.
It has been around since before Windows 95 (PC tools, IIRC), and then popularized with Windows 95. So 13 years!!
Shouldn't we come up with some more useable alternative? There has to be some novel idea out there, that increases productivity, yet preserves screen Real Estate.
Please note that the TaskBar is an applet. So, I presume that this is about the panel.
The reason that you need a panel is so that you can get to things while you have a maximized window covering the DeskTop. Actually, I have several.
Note that widgets would be more useful if there was a way to bring individual ones to the top with a hot spot on the edge of the screen (like hidden panels in KDE-3).
So, please keep the panel. I hope to see hide and auto-hide as well as child panels in the near future.
I just with all the greatness of konqueror as a file mangager was fully restorted.... dolphin is of no use to me.
Thank you for that very insightful comment. It really motivates us developers, because it gives us something constructive to work with!
You welcome for that comment. It was all I trusted myself to say without turning it into a rant.
just to make it clear: this would have happened regardless of dolphin. it was the result of the (much needed) shift to model/view for the file views and was already under development prior to dolphin coming into svn.
To be honest, I don't really care what the underlying technology is. I don't even care if the change was needed because you needed to add wheels to your grandma so you could use her as a wagon. What ever the underlying technology is or you think needs to be used, well more power to you.
But none of that really suggests to me konqueror as a file manager needed such radical (IMV) outward changes. Konqueror as a file manager as it is in KDE3 is AFAIAC, the greatest frigging application there is. I use it for just about everything and anything. There is nothing IMV that even compares.
Right now the way it feels in KDE4 it is nothing but a shadow of its former self and I can only hope this is only due to the freshness of KDE4 and as time progresses, *all* the things it could do will be restored in KDE4.
I love the Filemanagement of Konqueror in KDE3 too, but i think the KDE4 one will be improved.
about the underlying technology, i really do care (as a user) because it guarantees the future of the software.
Its the powerfull technology of KDE which makes Konqueror such a great application and this is exactly why something like Konqueror doesnt exists in other platforms: they havent such a good 'underlying' technology.
also, one of the motivations of FOSS programmers 'is' the underlying technology: they want to have fun with programming, programming is their pleasure and having fun while programming is just possible with 'underlying technology'.
I think you misunderstand my point. Yes I do understand the technology that makes KDE my favorite desktop is important. I was trying to say in a humorous way, I am comfortable with what ever decisions Aaron and the rest of the KDE developers make in that area.
Ehm, what do you miss? I myself mis the right mouse copy to and move to menu's, but I haven't used konqi much...
Extract Here option, Information and Metainformation and Preview on Hover and maybe others...
(for example i want to see the height of an image, in kde3 i was hovering the mouse on the image and in a tooltip it told me all information, now i have to open gwenview for that (an nah, its not i didnt find it in the Properties)
Also, im really jealous to the Information bars of the Dolphin.is there any plan to have them on konqueror too?
also there are some abusing bugs (in trunk) like copy/paste is not working, i have to check preview on every directory i want and...
This is so confusing.
Is it Doplhin or Konqueror? Will we use both side-by-side?
Or will it up to the distributions to choose, which one is better?
[sarcasm]
I see no problem with others, but Kubuntu might be in trouble. That would mean they actually *HAVE TO* work on the KDE port and *gasp* customize it. [/sarcasm]
Konqueror will be the default as a web browser, Dolphin as a file manager. Distros could of course override this, but I don't think many will. Fedora will use the upstream defaults. As for Kubuntu, they are already defaulting to D3lphin as the file manager in their current KDE 3 setup (see, it's not true that they don't customize anything!), so they'll almost certainly use the upstream defaults in KDE 4.
So from the sounds of your post, konqueror as a file manager is pretty much on the chopping block and will never regain the functionality and usefulness it had in KDE3. If that is really what the KDE folks have in mind that simply reinforces my notion "this sucks".
The *ONLY* way I would *EVER* consider Dolphin a usable substitute is if it *HAS* the *SAME* power and usefulness as konqueror in KDE3.
Both the lead developer of Konqueror (David Faure) and the developer of Dolphin (Peter Penz) have both stated on several occasions that they do not want Konqueror to lose any features it had in KDE3 as a result of embedding the Dolphin KPart. So it's basically a case of time and manpower.
That indeed is very pleasant to hear. I would love to help them on the manpower part but I do well to push bytes around fiddling around in bash.
That's a relief. It makes improves DolphinPart AND improves Konqueror. There can be no problem with that.
I stand corrected.
(forgot about Dolphin in 3)
Still it really feels like Kubuntu isn't trying.
hmmm, many KDE devs complain about all the changes Kubuntu does to KDE as it interferes with bugreporting... And you want MORE customizations?
- is panel a plasmoid tha contains other plasmoids or a kde4 app? if it's a plasmoid why not simply adding the buttons to scale/rotate?
- suggestion number two is related. I don't know if you did usability studies or whatever, but changing the plasmoids visual (showing border and scale, remove and rotate button) every time I pass a mouse over one plasmoid is... damn.. a nightmare! Can't you just add a small area/button that does it when I *click* on it? Current behavior is plain ugly IMHO and bad at usability - imagine a person moving the mouse and pressing the button by mistake right when the cursor was above the remove icon (I know there is a confirmation dialog, but still sucks). :)
- once it's basically a SVG border (at least the part that matters), what about adding a option to configure the background color? Sure, it won't work for SVGs themes with degrades or texture, but would be great for simpler ones as in the current version. Nothing agains black, but it would match the color theme better ;)
- least but I hope not fopr ever, I want back those little bars used to move each item in the panel. Did you noticed it's a bit hard to order them when placing in the panel from add plasmoid dialog?
Well, you can refuse all my suggestions, but remember most of them are things that are regressions from 3.x ;)
Thanks in advance!
about the second suggestion... right click on your desktop -> "lock widgets" and you're good to go ;)
> is panel a plasmoid tha contains other plasmoids or a kde4 app?
it's a Containment, which is a kind of Applet, though not a plasmoid stricly speaking. it's very similar and has a lot of the same attributes (due to it being an Applet, which is the core of a plasmoid) but it has some additional feature.
> if it's a plasmoid why not simply adding the buttons to scale/rotate?
that's the essential idea, though it's not that easy due to other constraints.
> every time I pass a mouse over one plasmoid is... damn.. a nightmare! Can't
> you just add a small area/button that does it when I *click* on it?
so you want *two* clicks?
> imagine a person moving the mouse and pressing the button by mistake right
> when the cursor was above the remove icon
have you actually tried doing this? at least in trunk, there is a small delay before showing the handle (so just moving the mouse over a plasmoid doesn't result in the handle) and the close button is *outside* of the applet area. which means you have to hover slowly enough and then move outside the applet.
not probable, and in fact, i can't even make it happen in an accidental fashion when i *try* =)
> what about adding a option to configure the background color
it already follows the color scheme for the svg theme.
> I want back those little bars used to move each item in the panel.
it's coming.
> but remember most of them are things that are regressions from 3.x
regressions will *always* be there because we aren't creating the same thing. so you're not going to have a 1:1 feature set. plasma is designed to do a *lot* more, but it's also designed to *not* do some of the things kde3 stuff did, mostly because those things can be done better.
and "most" is incorrect. i count one of your items as a regression, as the rest of them are regarding new features that come in plasma. =)
First of all, thanks for your answers.
About testing passing the mouse.. yes, I've tested. I had tought there was a confirmation dialog to remove a plasmoid/icon but no... it was very easy to remove one by mistake.
>so you want *two* clicks?
Yes, kind of, or right click on a plasmoid and have a menu with options much like the icons in kde3. I *know* that it makes harder to move/delete/resize, but that is actually my idea. Maybe I'm getting old, but things flashing when I pass the mouse over are so.. macromedia flash! :)
But hey! Developers are free to not listen to users by all means :D
(just wished oxygen had did it on the style contrast and lack of color in active title, heheehhehehe).
>> I *know* that it makes harder to move/delete/resize, but that is actually my idea. Maybe I'm getting old, but things flashing when I pass the mouse over are so.. macromedia flash!
I think you missed the point above about this being changed in trunk, in fact, it was changed in the current openSUSE packages, don't know about others, though.
On my desktop, the mouse has to be on a widget for a couple of seconds before the frame appears, that seems reasonable to me. If that's still an issue that leads to people accidentally clicking and closing them, I imagine they have terrible issues with the window bar and accidentally closing apps with that inconvenient "X" button... ;)
Not here in my kubuntu. But if it was changed, very good! :)
>I imagine they have terrible issues with the window bar and accidentally closing apps with that inconvenient "X" button
That's why it's placed in the top-right corner, imagine it all over the screen. Clicking of death would be funny :)
Oh, and I almost forgot: I wish I could tell my boss in HP: "this isn't a regression, we replaced the old UI for a new one", or even "it's not a defect, it's a new feature".. well the second I use sometime actualy :)
Heheheheheheh, but I do see your point and kind of agree, sadly world is far from perfect and removing features is perceived most times as regressions :-P
The first two things you talked about don't exist in KDE3 (KDesktop), so how can there be any regressions in regards to them? The third thing Aaron did acknowledge as a regression.
Aaron explained that not everything will be the same because the design objectives are different, so what helped create a great desktop in KDE3 (KDesktop) might be a hindrance in KDE4 (Plasma).
Leastwise, that is how I understand what he said.
> have you actually tried doing this? at least in trunk, there is a small delay
> before showing the handle (so just moving the mouse over a plasmoid doesn't
> result in the handle) and the close button is *outside* of the applet area.
> which means you have to hover slowly enough and then move outside the applet.
I suggest increment this delay because IMO it's still to quick (at least with svn from aprox one week ago)
Or just make it configurable. Let the user decide what he wants, and if he wants a delay, let him decide how long the delay should be. It's all about configurability and customizability.
Hi,
I wanted to say that the new KDE games website is really beautiful and up-to-date! Thanks for this!
I would be great if other pages were updated (like the Plaska page).
Greetings from Switzerland
> I would be great if other pages were updated (like the Plaska page).
i agree. now to find those extra 12 hours a day .. =) my hope is that as people are starting to Get(tm) the plasma concepts, that it'll be easier/possible for others to start working on the website so that the content isn't solely up to me.
while the site is important, there are other more important things to do with my time right now.
At least, similar pages for KDE packages (edu.kde.org, pim.kde.org etc.) should present the same nice interface.
Cool. I didn't know there was one.
Shouldn't KJumpingcube be in the Board section? It only uses the concept of dice to create a board game; it does not have an element of chance, as in throwing dice.