APR
24
2008

Google Summer of Code Projects Announced

Google have announced the projects and students for this years Summer of Code. We received the biggest number of students allocated to a project with 47 taking part. Applications which will be worked on include Amarok, KOffice, Marble and entirely new features such as a collaborative text editor.

Comments

I saw the list on Google's site the other day and I almost couldn't believe it.

Last year people were screaming Gnome favoritism. I wonder if this is Google trying to be bipartisan, or perhaps there were just more good KDE ideas this year.


By T. J. Brumfield at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Unforunately, Google prefers to throw money at the GNOME office suite, which got 19 spots, compared to KOffice's 7: gnumeric 3, abisource 6, gimp 5, inkscape 5

Overall, GNOME still got more projects (58): Gnome Office 19, Gnome 30, Cairo 3, Pidgin 6

Google should allow KOffice and Kopete to register separately in order to make it fair.


By Tray at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Last year KOffice completed just 5[1], so 7 is certainly up. It should also be noted that KOffice has gotten less developers, the code that last years SoC devs wrote still is not released and some has been obsoleted even.
I think its not that useful to talk about numbers here, lets focus on getting the most out of it. Like long lasting new developers and good code contributions.

With 7 I think KOffice can be very happy. I know I am :)

1) http://dot.kde.org/1188249220/


By Thomas Zander at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

NOT. gimp isn't gnome, inkscape isn't gnome. also pidgin.
Those are all GTK+ apps (as we can have Qt apps), not so bound
to the DE as you seem to believe.

Them are not part of any office suite, and you would be surprised
if you knew how much kde users also use gimp or inkscape
(with no offense for anyone but them are still fairly above the quality
level/number of users of Krita and Karbon).


By Nae at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

"gimp isn't gnome, inkscape isn't gnome. also pidgin."

Then don't count KOffice and Kopete as KDE.

"them are still fairly above the quality level/number of users of Krita and Karbon"

Krita has some features that GIMP doesn't and it is likely that it will be better than GIMP short time after 2.0.


By Grósz Dániel at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Gimp isn't developed by the core Gnome developers, nor Inkscape, etc.

Heck, last time I checked, those were multiplatform apps, where as Gnome is *nix only.

Kopete is shipped as a core KDE app these days, isn't it? Koffice is in the KDE SVN repository, yet has its own release schedule, but it is closely tied to KDE.


By T. J. Brumfield at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

So? Gimp is in the Gnome svn repository, uses the Gnome bugzilla and has extra support for gnome technologies it doesn't offer on other desktops.


By Boudewijn Rempt at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

Gimp and Inkscape are not Gnome applications. They are simple GTK ones.
KOffice and Kopete are KDE applications.

It's not a matter of 'opinion'. It's a fact.
It has to do with which libraries they use.


By ad at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

I know. But the comparison does not show anything if we compare the accepted projects for KDE containing an office suite and an instant messenger with the accepted projects of GNOME not containing those. The fair comparison is to compare GNOME with KDE-KOffice-Kopete because GNOME does not contain them, so KDE with them is a bigger project and, as such, could have received more projects.


By Grósz Dániel at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

What the hell are you talking about? Does Krita run without KDE installed? Does Gimp run without GNOME installed?

End of story.


By Marc Driftmeyer at Sat, 2008/05/03 - 5:00am

IMO this is not because Google prefers GNOME Office or GNOME to KDE but more because KDE is one big umbrella organization, for KOffice, Amarok, pim, network, education, etc. It would be nice to get separate organization for example Amarok, KOffice for next year, but for now lets be grateful for what we've had.

(And also, some projects are not GNOME project directly, but GTK+ projects (e.g: pidgin) - so a bit hard to compare directly).

P.S: Is there really a GNOME Office? As far as I know it is only few separated applications branded as "Office suite".


By fred at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

GNOME likes (liked?) to pretend there is http://live.gnome.org/GnomeOffice
But in a world where even OOo and Firefox are often seen as/claimed to be GTK+/GNOME apps this doesn't mean much indeed.


By anon at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

I find it sad that you create such a negative post with your commented that unfortunately they prefer gnome. Sour grapes in your post.

I sometimes get bored of the linux community. I get tired of the whole attitude some have between gnome vs kde. And the attitude between distro vs distro.

Perhaps your sour grapes can be dropped and you can congratulate Gnome on their accomplishments, after all, it is all about free and open software. And google is being fair, it's just your spoilt brat attitude towards Gnome needs to change.


By anon at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

true, congrats to all.


By dave null at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

There is no such thing as Gnome Office. Also Pidgin, Gimp and Inkscape are not Gnome applications, and I'm not sure about Gnumeric and Abiword.


By Narishma at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Just nitpicking here, but apparently there is such a thing as "GNOME Office". It's just not as integrated.

It consists of Abiword, Gnumeric, and GNOME-DB.

At least that's according to Gnumeric's website: http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnumeric/ and wikipedia.

The abiword website barely even mentions GNOME or even gtk (but it's there). GNOME-DB of course mentions GNOME, but I didn't look hard enough to find a mention of GNOME Office.

Oh, and Gnumeric is an official gnome project.

Abiword and Gnumeric are both very good apps. I actually tend to use them over the KOffice counterparts, and I'm a KDE fan boy. KSpread didn't have XY-scatter, and its calculation dependencies were innefficient (to the point of crashing), so I had to use gnumeric. However, to print, I had to open the spreadsheets up in KSpread for good PDFs.

From what I've read, the 2 problems I had with KSpread are fixed in 2.0, so I've got my fingers crossed.


By Soap at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

This point is moot. Abisource runs without most gnome libraries.

Cairo too.

What are you talking about? You cant bundle individual components together.


By she at Mon, 2008/04/28 - 5:00am

GNOME Office?

Last time I checked, it wastn't a suite, just a bunch of useful apps for office work.


By Axl at Sat, 2008/05/03 - 5:00am

After UPnP is done being integrated into Amarok. Does this mean that I can stream videos, and Music to my xbox 360?

Surprisingly enough, Microsoft used a standard for streaming inside the Xbox. This is my most missed feature and I would really appreciate it. :D


By jeremy at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

The priority of the project is on using Amarok as a client to UPnP servers, since actually you can stream from Linux to your XBox 360 already I think.


By Ian Monroe at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

There are various streaming programs that will allow you to do this, but it would be nice if Amarok could do this as well.


By T. J. Brumfield at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

with the vlc backend it should be easy to do


By patcito at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

wait... what?
*insert lolcat image*


By Ian Monroe at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Isn't there a vlc backend for phonon?


By me at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Phonon doesn't have anything to do with UPnP.


By Ian Monroe at Sun, 2008/04/27 - 5:00am

I see that NX is in SoC. But I wonder: I saw those impressive demos few years ago, and even tried it myself. And the software is very impressive. But it seems that it hasn't gotten anywhere, as far as KDE is concerned. Few years ago I wished for transparent, bulletproof NX-support in KDE, and it still seems to be in the "to-do"-list. Yes, it propably works, but it's a hassle to set up.

back then, I dreamed of a aystem that would be 100% transparent no matter if the desktop was running on the local machine, or on a machine far away. We could then have low-powered net-enabled devices, that the user could use to connect to a powerful machine somewhere else. We are already getting devices just like that with the HP Mininote and Asus EEE.

Since KDE already has server-related projects (Kolab etc.), how about NX-focused server that is integrated with KDE?


By Janne at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

> Since KDE already has server-related projects (Kolab etc.), how about NX-focused server that is integrated with KDE?

Sounds good! When will you be finished? :-)


By John Tapsell at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Why is it that whenever someone makes a suggestion, the answer is something like "Sounds great, when can you start coding?". Does it ever occur to any of you that not everyone is a coder?


By Janne at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

"Yea, they probably say so becoz they want to do what interests them, and not what some random tells them to do"


By Book of Konqui at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

I'm not telling anyone to "implement this! NOW!". I'm throwing a suggestion out there. If someone picks it up, great! if not, well, too bad. I think something like this would be very useful and cool. But I can't write it, since I'm not a coder.


By Janne at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

and if you complain about some software they'll wiggle in their chair with pride after they type "then return it" or "get your money back". making their comment will secure their position in the linux l33t or some bull shit like that! Oh yes, for years after people will say "anonymous fanboy was so hard core linux" and visions in this coders head of girls noticing him for his linux wit, or perhaps the amount of ram in his system.. blah blah blah...

i think those who jump on others even in the name of linux are just as bad


By anon at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

was that English?

:D


By avid reader at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

It is because all the active coders have a lot of ideas themselves, most of which they will not even be able do anytime in their life.

So it occurs pretty lame to just throw in "See my great idea, am I cool, please do it for me.". Ideas are easy to produce, they are created all the time. If we all shouted out our new ideas anytime there would be a hell of a noise.

Code is the hard work. It takes time. And sweat.

Still everyone can learn to code, the current coders did, you can, too. To do so won't be lame, really ;)


By Koder at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

"Ideas are easy to produce, they are created all the time."

Yes, but good ideas are rare and coders don't have a monopoly on producing them.

Assuming that developers are able to tell a good idea from a bad one, the greater the number of good ideas available (from users and developers alike) the more likely that time will be spent on them. I've wasted time developing random crap because I can't come up with anything better, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

There is a huge difference between suggesting and demanding. Not everyone can code or wants to. Get over it. If you want "better ideas" encourage people with ideas to flesh them out, deliver specs and use cases. That's far more productive than saying "learn to code" to someone who has no experience in doing so: Think how long it has taken you to learn to code (including school, college, university, and self educating). If you had to start coding now, could you retro-fit that around your 9-5 day day job, family and social commitments? I doubt it: I couldn't. Not everyone has that much free time.

For what it's worth I would also like to see what the OP proposed become a reality. But, don't worry, I won't mention it again ;)


By Martin Fitzpatrick at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

[If you want "better ideas" encourage people with ideas to flesh them out]

Exactly. Put emphasize on the "want". If one wants, sure. But there are too many just rushing into this virtual room and shouting without being asked to "Look, you must do it, it is so clever." This "must" is what hurts. It collides with the liberty feeling.

[Not everyone has that much free time.]

Then he should take his money and pay someone to scratch his itch. That simple. Or learn to pray. But not go out and act like nagging people to do something for him for free.


By Koder at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

what on earth is this discussion about? I see comments about how "making demands is not cool" when in fact I explicitly said that I'm NOT demanding anything. And it seems to me that we are approaching a point where coding-skills are required even if you just suggest something or float an idea that might be useful. and what is this about "nagging"? Was my comment "nagging"?

Well, I apologize. I'll try not to make any feature-suggestions, ideas for improvement or anything of the sort in the future. I guess those are reserved to coders and coders alone. Please, just disregard my comment, it was just a stream of thought from a lowly user. I know better now, and I'll just stfu.


By Janne at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Apoligize taken.

The problem is not your intention, but the way it arrives. It is like unwanted help or hints. Too many of them make someone angry. It is received as nagging, by sensible ones at least ;)

You are welcome to add your ideas to bugs.kde.org, so they won't be lost. Other than in random forum posts, where they are. Yes, that needs some work. Still it is the way for you to participate, they way you are asked for. Just "throwing in wild ideas" at the first best place without being asked for, is too easy and received as nagging, really.


By Koder at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

No the problem is that many posters are morons who overreact to perfectly sensible posts like Janne's. Many of them are not even part of the project themselves but they get high on these pathetic power trips. How about letting the people directly related to these projects criticize these kind of posts if they feel like it. They are usually much more sensible.


By ad at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

"Apoligize taken."

Um, I was being sarcastic.

"The problem is not your intention, but the way it arrives."

And what would that be? "nagging? It would be nagging if I constantly demanded that this particular feature gets implemented. How exactly can one singular comment that is few sentences long be considered "nagging"?

"You are welcome to add your ideas to bugs.kde.org"

No, I won't be doing that. I mean, I don't want to offer any "unwanted help" or "nag" to the developers... Besides, those coders have interests of their own, what does it matter what I want done, right? After all, I'm not a coder.

"Just "throwing in wild ideas" at the first best place without being asked for, is too easy and received as nagging, really."

I talked about NX, which was directly related to the subject of this article. Are you saying that comments that contains something that could be seen as a "suggestion" do not belong to dot.kde.org?

Don't like the suggestion or the way it was presented? Fine, ignore it. Just don't start nagging about it.


By Janne at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

[It would be nagging...]

Well, you are just not the only one. Try to see if from a active person's POV: There may be only one suggestion per user, but by the masses of users it makes up an enormous flood of suggestions.

[How exactly can one singular comment ... "nagging"?]

Well, you also only got one singular comment "Where is your code?" and already started to be pissed of. As you also see a masses of developers who each only one time say something like that ;)

[No, I won't do that.]

So, you are not really interested? Too sad. Pretty sensible, you are. And see, bugs.kde.org is set up exactly for this, that is where your help is really, really wanted. But obviously now your ego is in the way, oh dear.

[Fine, ignore it.]

Honey, just be a good example and ignore comments like "Where is your code?" then :P


By Koder at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

"There may be only one suggestion per user, but by the masses of users it makes up an enormous flood of suggestions."

Yes, heaven forbid when users make suggestions on how to make the software better! How dare they! they should just use the software and STFU! Or better yet: they shouldn't even use the software either, then the coders would REALLY be left in peace, right?

"Well, you also only got one singular comment "Where is your code?" and already started to be pissed of."

Because the mentality that only coders are worth something, is getting pretty old, pretty fast. If I wanted to use software where dialog with the developers is not wanted, I might as well use Windows.

It's not constructive to suggest something, and receive a reply that basically says "do it yourself". What WOULD be constructive is a discussion on the pros and cons of the idea, and further ideas how to improve it.

"So, you are not really interested?"

Yes I am. In fact, I have filed bug-reports. I have discussed things in mailinglists, developer-blogs and in various forums. But I wont be doing that anymore, since you made me see the light. Feedback, suggestions, wishes and the like not wanted. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

"Honey, just be a good example and ignore comments like "Where is your code?" then :P"

In the end, suggestions lilke that are not constructive. It just reinforces the "by coders, for coders"-mentality. Fact of the matter is that most people are not coders. And still, those people might have valuable feedback to provide. But here you are basically saying that if they can't code, their feedback is worthless.

Like I said: thanks for helping me see the light. I know now that feedback and suggestions are not wanted.

Have fun coding.


By Janne at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

"... And see, bugs.kde.org is set up exactly for this, that is where your help is really, really wanted."

[I know now that feedback and suggestions are not wanted.]

I see. What stops you from learning to write code is that you have already problems to read... :) At least if it doesn't fit your own view.

But you have a good excuse now to stop contributing even your ideas, those (all of them?) lame developers are just too arrogant to listen to you. I gratulate. You are free.


By Koder at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

"Koder":You're an idiot.

Janne: For what it's worth, I am a developer (not of KDE but other things) and I value contributions like yours. AKA polite and interesting. Keep contributing, filing bugs and having discussions: if only to drown out the sound coming from this guy. Have fun.


By Martin Fitzpatrick at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

Oh, thanks, other than you obviously. Hope you don't mind that I still value your elaborated argumentation techniques.

Please now continue your fruitful discussions about nx dreams, sorry that I disrupted.

Have fun. But learn to code.


By Koder at Fri, 2008/04/25 - 5:00am

Have fun. But learn to code.

Already can. Learn to read.


By Martin Fitzpatrick at Sat, 2008/04/26 - 5:00am

Koder: could you please quote the part in dot.kde.org that says "feedback and suggestions are not wanted here"? Also, could you please quote the part in kde.org that says "feedback and suggestions are only wanted in bugs-kde.org, and nowhere else"? I'm waiting.... If you can't find text that says that, then what exactly makes you think that dot is not kosher as far as suggestions and feedback is concerned?

I have talked about KDE in my blog, what are you going to do about it? Punch me in the face? I have also talked about KDE in developer-blogs? What are you going to do about that? Start whining that I should only talk about kDE in bugs.kde.org?

Also, are you part of the KDE-project? If you are not, then what makes you think that you can talk for KDE? Only person you can talk for, is yourself.

"At least if it doesn't fit your own view."

Look who's talking. You start whining if someone does something that does not fit your narrow world-view on things.


By Janne at Mon, 2008/04/28 - 5:00am

Koder: are you a KDE developer?


By Vide at Mon, 2008/04/28 - 5:00am

But not everyone learns how to code well. I would know, I suck.
I get by but mostly only because of my good looks and rapier wit.
The last thing we need is an influx of crappy coders into the project.
Oh wait, gSOCers. nm.

Remember now kiddies, don't feed the troll.
Especially if he only assymptotically approaches a valid point...


By illogic-al at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

I've spun this thought a bit further:
http://ich.war-es-wirklich.net/cms/KDE-home-system-pipe-dream

If think this is as much a question of packaging and creating an installer as it is of writing KDE-specific code. I wonder if there is a distro that helps with these things (easy setup of more than one machine).


By cm at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

Am I the only one to notice that the flatforty functionality of the dot is broken since some time... :-)

http://dot.kde.org/static/flatforty


By Yves at Thu, 2008/04/24 - 5:00am

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