After last week's update to the KDE 3.5 series, today's KDE release updates the stable KDE 4.1 branch to KDE 4.1.1. It bears the codename "Cebidae" referring to an in-joke often made during Akademy 2008. With only a good month of development time -- and Akademy in between -- the changelog is still impressively long. Pretty much all applications have received the developers' attention, resulting in a long list of bugfixes and improvements.
The most significant changes are:
- Significant performance, interaction and rendering correctness improvements in KHTML and Konqueror, KDE's webbrowser
- User interaction, rendering and stability fixes in Plasma, the KDE4 desktop shell
- PDF backend fixes in the document viewer Okular
- Fixes in Gwenview, the image viewer's thumbnailing, more robust retrieval and display of images with broken metadata
- Stability and interaction fixes in KMail
To find out more about KDE 4.1, please refer to the KDE 4.1.0 and KDE 4.0.0 release notes. KDE 4.1.1 is a recommended update for everyone running KDE 4.1.0. It will be followed up by more x.y.z updates over the next months and ultimately by a new feature release, KDE 4.2.0 this coming January. Enjoy KDE 4.1.1 and let us know your findings.
Comments
quote:: the icon view can be configured to act as "multi column view" (Dolphin Settings -> Icon View -> Alignment).
Thanks, although I'm pretty sure I tried this, and found it to be less than optimal. Maybe it was the behaviour of the Icons, I'll have to reinstall Mandriva 2009.0 on my test machine again, and refresh my memory.
Being able to set Icon size, in Konqueror, or Dolphin if you insist that it replace Konqueror, the way you do in KDE 3.5.9 would be really nice to have. I don't like icons that expand to fill the available space.
Getting the tree view on the left panel the way it's implemented in KDE 3.5.9 back would be nice. Once again the icons expanding to fill available space is less than optimal.
"If not they are still barely usable."
Since there are loads of people that have been using both for quite some time already, it seems to me that they are already quite usable...
I always get slightly annoyed when there is something (be it hardware or software) and someone claims that "if it doesn't get feature X, it's not usable at all!", while there are loads of people using that product at that very moment, and enjoying it. The parent-comment is such a comment. Another one I have seen recently is comments about EEE-PC, where someone complains that "It's useless, since it doesn't have built-in 3G!". Well, those thousands of people who bought one are going to disappointed when they find out that they can't do anything with their new laptop.... Or maybe not.
Janne, I use the missing bits almost exclusively, the functionality that is there does not fit with how I do things, I'm not prepared to learn a new way of doing things when the current functionality (on KDE3.5.9) meets all of my needs, and the Functionality available on Dolphin and Konqueror (KDE4) are but pale shadows of the functionality I currently use. The fact that the functionality I depend on is not there makes Dolphin nad Konqueror (KDE 4) barely usable for my needs.
So, either stay on 3.5, create the view you so desparately need for 4, or pay someone else to do it. Heck, if you think Nautilus is better, by all means use that instead. No one is forcing you to to switch, right?
Fact is that many people use the software without having your problem, so stating that it is unusable without is just childish whining IMnsHO.
Well at the moment I am forced to use 3.5.9, GNOME is crap, and KDE 4 is still in development. The features I use appear to have been removed from KDE 4 for no good reason, they certainly haven't been replaced with better features. You call it whining, I call it asking for the features that are in 3.5.9 to put back in to 4, or at least given an explanation of why, and what will be done to replace those features in the future.
And in point of fact I will be forced at some point to switch, 3.x will be discontinued, and as I said before GNOME is crap, There are many good things in KDE 4, unfortunately there are bits that seem to have been left out, for no good reason, it just so happens they are the bits that make the File manager a useful tool for me.
"or at least given an explanation of why"
Things get lost during major changes like KDE3 to KDE4 - some things become easier to implement; others become much harder. It takes manpower to re-implement the missing features and, like most software projects, KDE has a perennial shortage of this. Happy? :)
First off, none of the KDE devs are forcing you to use anything. You made the choice to use it. Second, GNOME is _not_ crap. You may not like it, but calling it crap is just being childish. Thirdly, to state that KDE4 is still in development is an understatement. I sincerely hope that development of KDE4 continues so that it improves over time. Lastly, it seems you like the phrase 'for no good reason'. Soon, someone here will give a pretty good reason to stop whining. It has been made quite clear, over and over, again that features that are present in the KDE3 but not in KDE4 will take time to appear in KDE4 due to various _good_ reasons. Some features will be implemented differently. If you do not appreciate this, I strongly suggest you roll up your sleeves and get coding. The KDE team appreciates people who contribute code. In conclusion, you will need to publicly state how much you have paid the KDE dev team in order to start making demands from them.
BI have not made demands, I have made complaints, I did not demand they do anything, I asked when If they had put back the functionality they removed, and stated that without that os features KDE 4 is near useless to me. A demand would be something along the lines of "If you don't do X I will do Y"
First off, you won't like my C/C++ code so I won't. Second the KDE team chose to do what they are doing, no one forced them. They also chose to leave out of 4 features that I appreciate and use, that are in 3.x. I don't like that fact, as it makes 4 pretty near useless to me, I have every right to complain, I have.
Oh and GNOME is crap, it's ugly, and doesn't have the features that I use in KDE 3.x.
As to how much I pay the KDE team, I can't be sure of that, but I do pay for my copy of Mandriva Linux, that costs me about $AU100.00 a year, but that depends on the exchange rate, and has been as High as $AU130.00, How much of that Mandriva contributes to the KDE development process I can't know. So I am in fact a paying customer, so, by your definition I am entitled to complain.
It still appears to me that good and useful features were left out of KDE 4, features I depend on, for no good reason, and because they are missing Konqueror/Dolphin is pretty near useless to me.
Complain to Mandriva then. It is them you are paying, after all.
But you see my original post wasn't a complaint, it was a question. I wanted to know if certain functionalities had been put back in.
Some one asked what so I told them, I stated that I can't work with KDE 4 Konqueror/Dolpin as they are, as it's not up to Mandriva when those features are added back in, I can't see that asking Mandriva if or when those bits will be put back in has any point at all.
You don't have to like it that I find the current release of Konqueror/Dolphin useless, but there you have, it's my problem until they get added back in, and you and anyone else getting upset about me speaking the truth it is really quite silly.
One thing we can be sure of, is that if I or anyone else don't point out that we want those features then the KDE team are going to assume that no one wants them. And I've already seen plenty of comments that no one has mentioned them so they aren't high priority.
> Well at the moment I am forced to use 3.5.9
Forced by whom? And why is that a problem? 3.5 is still maintained, after all.
> GNOME is crap
I was just using it as an example, and a previous poster was right: it is not crap, it is just (judging from your reponse) not your cup of tea. Fine, it isn't mine either, but I am not about to start a war over it.
> and KDE 4 is still in development
A very true statement. Maybe you should try to let the consequences of that sink in. It means that KDE is not a finished product, it means that you too can still influence it's path, it means there is a world of opportunities left, but it also means that people still have to do the actual work.
> The features I use appear to have been removed from KDE 4 for no good reason, they certainly haven't been replaced with better features.
For no good reason? And you know this... how? You do understand that keeping existing features isn't just a matter of not deleting the existing code, I hope? It takes effort and time to port everything to the new infrastructure. I find that even "the current developers of program x are just not interested in feature y" to be a perfectly good reason. Mind you, I am not claiming that KDE works this way in general at all, just that for me, that would be a valid reason. Think of it as an invitation to come and scratch your *own* itch. And no, you too will not be required to work on stuff you don't find useful or interesting.
Whether the features have been replaced by something better is debatable. In some cases probably not, in other cases they have. And that is subject to the eye of the beholder.
> You call it whining, I call it asking for the features that are in 3.5.9 to put back in to 4, or at least given an explanation of why, and what will be done to replace those features in the future.
No, you are misunderstanding me. I don't call politely asking what happened to that feature you likes so much whining, I call your calling "project x is unusable because my pet feature y is not there anymore" whining. There is a difference. There has been plenty of explanation on why a leap in infrastructures was needed. It has filled the KDE blogs and websites for the last two years or so.
The answer to your question on what will happen with those features is easily given. If they are more generally considered useful, I am sure they will re-appear at one moment or another. It also depends on if people come to step in to scratch their own itches. It is really not that hard to get into KDE development.
> And in point of fact I will be forced at some point to switch, 3.x will be discontinued,
Yes, at one point in the future it will be. Now is not that time however; the last release is less than a week old. And even if it is no longer supported, you are still not forced to switch. It still works for you, right? It is not like the bits will start rotting if they don't get cleaned by some developer once in awhile.
> There are many good things in KDE 4, unfortunately there are bits that seem to have been left out, for no good reason, it just so happens they are the bits that make the File manager a useful tool for me.
Yes, there *are* many good things in KDE 4! Thanks for noticing, we love to hear about those too.
As said before: if you think the current file manager is not up to your standards or even developed in a direction that you don't fancy, what is to stop you to use the KDE 3 version of konqueror for that? You still can, you know, even if the rest of your system is KDE 4. What is stopping you from contributing to make the KDE 4 version at least as great as the KDE 3 version?
quote:: What is stopping you from contributing to make the KDE 4 version at least as great as the KDE 3 version?
the lack of ability to write anything more than "Hello World" in C/C++. The KDE team won't like my code, you can be certain of that.
quote:: For no good reason? And you know this... how?
"The features I use appear to have been removed from KDE 4 for no good reason..."
They are not there, I have seen no explanation of why, or even a suggestion that they will be restored at a later date.
But the point is that you don't *know* the reason for the removal, right? So, if you don't know the reason, how can you judge if it is not a good reason. And please, take into account my previous statement that "the developer not being all that interested in that particular feature" is a good reason, at least in my book.
quote:: And please, take into account my previous statement that "the developer not being all that interested in that particular feature" is a good reason, at least in my book.
It's not in mine.
"Well at the moment I am forced to use 3.5.9"
No you are not. You choose to use it.
"and KDE 4 is still in development."
Damn straight it is. KDE3 was in developement for 6.5 years before 3.5.10 was released! And in many ways, KDE3 is still in developement!
"and in point of fact I will be forced at some point to switch, 3.x will be discontinued"
No-one is going to remove KDE3 from your hard-drive. You could happily use it for years to come.
"There are many good things in KDE 4, unfortunately there are bits that seem to have been left out, for no good reason"
What makes you think that the reasons for the removal of those features are not good?
quote:: What makes you think that the reasons for the removal of those features are not good?
The lack of reasons given for removing useful features.
Where did you look for those explanations? Did you read the commit logs or something like that?
"or at least given an explanation of why"
First, I agree with you. There are features in KFM (konqueor File Manager) in 3.5.10 that I find highly useful that were missing in 4.0.y. These missing features did result in a large reduction in usability for some purposes. There is hope. Some of them have reappeared in TRUNK and some of the bugs related to them have been fixed.
I don't know if this is the "why" but it is the reason. Konqueror 3.x.y used two KFM KParts for file management (depending on whether you used icon view or list view). Konqueror 4.x.y uses a Dolphin KPart for file management. KFM was not ported and the Dolphin part simply doesn't have all of the features. Then there were the add-ons & Tools; these have not all been ported either.
Yes, this begs the question which now is: 'why are these features are missing from the Dolphin part?' Well (DUH!), they haven't been added yet. To me this seems like a high priority issue, but others don't see it that way. So, all I can tell you to do is wait unless you want to join the Konqueror/Dolphin team.
One thing Linus says often is that _regressions_ are a really bad thing. He is right, when you read lists like this you wonder if the noise/signal ratio has negated even Google's relevance criteria.
Fifteen years ago "things could get broken" now that __should_not_happen__ in stuff labeled -beta, -rc, -ga, and if functionality is reorganised it __must__ go into the release notes. Unless you are secretly, on M$ and Balmer's side, dont do it. No doc ... -> no change.
Now, next major gripe, there are a small number of absolutely critical major components of GNU?/Linux, the kernel itself, gcc, glibc [all of which are fine] and Mozilla (Firefox/Seamonkey), KDE, OO, Mono and the Java collection where it is clear that the developers are hostile or unhelpful to non-clique contribution. This first manifests itself in an arcane and poorly documented 'get source', configure, build processes [ eg it took nearly a month to figure out how to get a working build of the Mozilla components since the documentation of CVS/SVN and moz(illa)conf was just missing/wrong.
Use the Source, Luke _only_ really works when that is possible, if you can't
(a) grab the source eg ftp: http: git -clone svn hg cvs
(b) read INSTALL
(c) do what it says
(d) make ...
get a working binary, ... the project is arrogant, lazy or careless.
It should __not__ take more than an hour to figure out, from the documentation, how to build anything, and if you really need some fantastically complex build procedure, ship as .sh file.
"Janne, I use the missing bits almost exclusively,"
And others do not. The point is that those apps are not "unusable" just because they are lacking features you need. It might be unusable for you, but it's perfectly usable to others.
"I'm not prepared to learn a new way of doing things when the current functionality (on KDE3.5.9) meets all of my needs"
Then by all means keep on using 3.5. No-one is forcing you to use KDE4. So what exactly is the problem here?
quote:: And others do not. The point is that those apps are not "unusable" just because they are lacking features you need. It might be unusable for you, but it's perfectly usable to others.
Almost unusable, is the term I used. Others my have work arounds that they find get them past the missing features, I may have too, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about missing functionality.
Yes there are some really nice touches to KDE4, unfortunately, for me, the fly in the ointment makes the rest of the ointment unusable. I stated that. I started this by asking if those features had been put back, the response that said 4.1.1 is a bug fix made it clear that they had not.
Workarounds? The only missing feature I've noticed is that if I use dolphin and open a file, it no longer opens in the same window. However, I can use konqueror with the dolphin part to get that back. I don't work around anything, because there's nothing I have used in the past that is missing.
I find dolphin very usable. Much more so that Konqueror in 3.5, actually.
So your statement that dolphin and konqueror are "unusable" (or even "almost unusable") is indeed incorrect. I disprove it every day I use Dolphin with no issues.
quote:: So your statement that dolphin and konqueror are "unusable" (or even "almost unusable") is indeed incorrect. I disprove it every day I use Dolphin with no issues.
I said I find them almost unusable. If you are happy with them as they are or have a workaround you are happy with that's what you'll be happy with.
I think dolphin is fine so far, though the tree view is pretty annoying and it is way too complicated to turn it on.
I like dolphin and use it for my file browsing needs. I like konqueror the way it is too, I made it my default browser at home, since no other linux browser I ever tested is that fast, and has the best feature ever: reveiled when pressing the left ctrl key! I get no SVG in konq atm, but this is the only drawback.
I recently tried konqueror for file browsing and it was a bad joke. That's not konqueror, that's a big dolphin window with "konqueror" written on the title bar.
This can't be KFM.
I'm no konqueror pro, and I don't know if my openSUSE factory packages for 4.1 are broken, but if it is the way it is for me, I can honestly understand why many konqueror file browsing fans out there are crying.
> I think dolphin is fine so far, though the tree view is pretty
> annoying and it is way too complicated to turn it on.
Could you please give some more input what parts of the "tree view" are annoying for you? It's tricky to fix your issue without further input ;-) Also I don't understand whats way too complicated to enable the tree view: It's a checkbox...
> I recently tried konqueror for file browsing and it was a bad joke.
> That's not konqueror, that's a big dolphin window with "konqueror"
> written on the title bar. This can't be KFM.
Well, Konqueror still can embed any kind of file-view and is not restricted to the Dolphin KPart. It "just" would take someone who ports those view-KParts from KDE 3 to KDE 4 (-> all 7 views from KDE 3 would be available 1:1 in Konqueror for KDE 4). But it seems that the demand for this is not high enough, to motivate someone implementing this. Maybe a lot of people can live quite well with the "bad joke" ;-)
> Could you please give some more input what parts of the "tree view" are
> annoying for you? It's tricky to fix your issue without further input ;-)
> Also I don't understand whats way too complicated to enable the tree view:
> It's a checkbox...
I expected to be able to turn on tree view, just like detail and symbol view, from the view menu. The application settings where the last place where I considered looking for it.
I didn't like the treeviews behaviour very much because I'm used to windows explorers and konquerors navigation.
Playing around with it some more, I find it pretty shiny, one just has to keep in mind that there are three parts on a folder entry he can click, and everything will result in different behaviour:
plus: expand in tree view
symbol: select/deselect
name: navigate into it
And I never want to navigate into it in treeview.
So let's say I began to like it, though I think the konqueror 3 style is more suited for file manager power users, which I am not.
> Well, Konqueror still can embed any kind of file-view and is not restricted
> to the Dolphin KPart. It "just" would take someone who ports those
> view-KParts from KDE 3 to KDE 4 (-> all 7 views from KDE 3 would be available
> 1:1 in Konqueror for KDE 4). But it seems that the demand for this is not
> high enough, to motivate someone implementing this. Maybe a lot of people can
> live quite well with the "bad joke" ;-)
Including me. The "bad joke" is that it's not konqueror anymore, it's dolphin inside konqueror. Because it's the very same KPart AFAIK. I'm not a dolphin enemy, nor a konqueror fanboy. I can just feel with some (apparently non-programming) konqueror fanboys whining because of that.
SVG in Konqueror/KHTML is coming back in 4.2.
http://www.linux.com/feature/146323
Those are some great feature suggestions. Could we possibliy implement them by 4.2?
btw. Great job everybody on KDE 4.1 !!!\
some of those items are already in trunk; some aren't. probably some won't be in 4.2, knowing how idle wishlists go =)
> Could we possibliy implement them by 4.2?
you used the magic word "we". alone, no one could do it all. together we can; indeed we are.
fire up your text editors =)
I love that - Gentlemen "fire up your text editors..." Muhahaha...
I'm using 4.1.1 and it all seems a bit nicer. I've lost special effects as other opensuse users report but I can live with that in the short term, however....
In Kontact, Calendar view, I've lost my todo list and two months worth of dates. I am only getting my diary.
I'm sure the inconvenience is easy fixable by finding the right configuration options, but I'm failing the intelligence test.
Any clues offered gratefully received
Best is probably to follow the bugreport on bugs.novell.com as to the effects issue, and to contact the [email protected] list about your calendar view issues, the people that will be able to help you might not read the Dot that closely, and it's a poor way to provide support.
Anyone knows where to obtain libphonon? (Note - i am not using a distribution so please dont tell me to use packages. I compile everything from source here.)
kdelibs seems to require it but google gives me no usable info on how to obtain phonon.
Phonon is in the KDE Support module.
Qt.
4.4
Phonon is released as part of Qt 4.4, but you can get a more recent version (and one recommended for use with KDE 4.1) at ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/phonon/4.2/.
And you'll need at least one of xine-lib or GStreamer to actually get any sound and video out of it.
Even you arent use any distro, and prefer the lfs touch, you could use some distro tools. Sophie is our friend ;) http://sophie.zarb.org
for example : find the libphonon in all version of (mandriva,fedora,centos, arklinux, PLD, Scientific linux, etcetc...) :
http://sophie.zarb.org/filefind?distrib=&version=&arch=&filename=libphonon
You could view where this library is packaging... distro by distro, version by version (evolution...). Maybe sophie could be usefull for lfs users too, when a question like yours comes ?
Regards.
I agree that it would be nice to see how far things are moving along. I also agree that it is better to wait for at least 4.2 or higher. I tried 4.1 and it is not for me. I will upgrade when the OS I am using forces me to upgrade or every thing I want to use only has versions for KDE 4. To many windows that pop up asking for passwords do not allowed those to be entered and then you have to cancel the window. I know this might be the OS I have chosen as well but these problems just make me want to use what I am used to.
> To many windows that pop up asking for passwords
which windows are these, exactly? e.g. what program do they belong to?
This mainly has to deal with synaptic which I know is not your issue but some times it works fine but most of the time it does not. I like the old desktop model any ways so I will just stick with it as long as I can.
Synaptic is a Gnome app.
Oops, missed the "I know it's not your issue" part. ;-)
Great job KDE dudes!
change takes getting used to.
I constantly read, I am not moving to 4.1 until.....
I can't help but wonder if this was windows would these people still be on windows 95.
I moved to KDE 4 when it came out, and it took getting used to, but there is no way that I regret it, or that I could even imagine not using it.
Please, enough of the I am not moving to it until. if you really feel that strong then start helping these amazing people out with building KDE and stop the moaning.
From my experience, there's a common attitude among developers to just ignore the "if you don't implement X, I'll use something else" kind of threats. And rightfully so, if you ask me. It's fine to state that KDE4 is not (yet) your kind of thing, but put in this way, it's just most likely to be ignored or cause the opposite direction.
amen.
quote:: I can't help but wonder if this was windows would these people still be on windows 95.
an inordinately large number of people still are, well Win 98, I even manage to get some of them to Linux a try, but mostly they won't move to anything until the hardware breaks.