In this week's KDE Commit-Digest: Plasma continues to mature, with improvements to the Twitter applet (and the creation of a complementary data engine), and the adoption of a common visual style for Plasmoids, and the integration of support for SuperKaramba applets through the creation of the SuperKaramba Plasmoid. More work on the re-implementation of the Magnatune interface within the new music store framework, and integration of the recent Plasma work for Amarok 2. More work on KBlocks, whilst KMines and KLines become the first KDE applications to take advantage of the recently-developed KPixmapCache. More work on colour mixing in Krita. Import of Habitat, a realistic interaction environment, to playground/edu. A return to work on Cokoon, a framework for widget and window decoration creation. RSIBreak, KCall, and the Kickoff menu start to be ported to KDE 4. KDE 4.0 Beta 1 is tagged for release.
Comments
I like the way fonts are grouped, and all the features shown, but a better preview would be nice. The KDE3 version had a nice preview over a range of sizes, so you could see the detail (which is important for fonts). I prefer that.
I also prefer the KControl interface over System Settings, but that's another issue. (There's too much blank space, and I hate having to navigate back to the overview all the time.)
> I also prefer the KControl interface over System Settings
+1; where I can report this? - noticing that in a discussion, I was pointed to kde-look.org as a place for determining the future of KDE, but that really does not look like a place where one can "slap" the people responsible for promoting this piece of crap
PLEASE do not feel offended by the words "piece of crap" - this is only my opinion on SS which is based on the usability (as Soap says) and on the fact that I do not like throwing away good things just to make them similar to those in the Windows world ... but it DOES NOT mean that I am spitting on the work put in SS; when there are users who like SS, it is a good job doing SS, it is all about choice, but please do not take away my choice from me just to satisfy those who like it the Windows way, because if they want it that way, they can just go and buy Windows, but I have nowhere to go ... and do not tell me I "have the choice" to take kcontrol codebase and maintain it myself, so that it won't die in the shadow of SS - this is beyond my skills, and I would have to leave other projects I invest my time in, which is a bad choice
Who codes decide. So, stop complaining and start coding.
Though I agree that the coder has the final word and that every people involved in a Free software project should get praise for his/her work, I'm happy that most coders actually take into account inputs from casual users like myself and do not reject my opinion for the single reason that I do not (and cannot) code.
Because free software would not be as good and valuable as it is if they did. Fortunately, most are too clever to act in such stupid way.
Don't believe this dodge. If you write the code, they will find some other excuse (NIH).
+1, me too!
The better way is to mantain both, KControl (my choice) and System Settings (newbie users?). But it will make some confusion, so why not a fusion?
i.e.: a left view with categories (like Kcontrol), a center view vith category icons / component view (like System Settings)
Maintaining both is just more work. System Settings is better code than kcontrol at the moment, so it will be used. However, I do agree that it is not quite optimal. The problem is that we are rapidly approaching 4.0 and we need to ship a control panel that functions. Kcontrol does not function at all right now; System Settings does.
For 4.1, if someone can create a system that embeds the KCM modules into an even better system, it would most likely get shipped, but only if it was better than System Settings.
the position "the old was bad code" has been used many many times on kde code , as i read kde-core-devel,.. was kde 3.5.x really this crappy code ??????
it looks like everything was crap code , from konqueror (unmaintable) , kcontrol, kdedesktop, and so on...
greetings.
kcontrol wasn't crappy code. it was just an interface we, or rather the software, outgrew.
the reason it didn't work in trunk/ is because nobody fixed it after the kcm's .desktop files were moved from applnk/ (now dead) to services/. it's probably only an hour's work or so (if that; could be a 15 minute fix even) but nobody did it because it had been decided a long while ago (malaga) that based on the interface, kcontrol would go.
so it wasn't a code quality issue.
well, it looks like circular reasons :-) - kcontrol is not included because it is unmaintained, and it is unmaintained because it was decided not to include it ...
oh wait, you say "based on the interface"? - please, can you point me to some serious discussion? all I've seen on the web so far is like "ah, there are shiny icons in the SS, not that ugly - mostly textual - tree like in kcontrol" or "(k)Ubuntu does it the right way, Ubuntu rulezz" but nobody really took care about how long it takes to find/set up something, how many clicks and mouse mileage it takes or how is the keyboard navigation ...
"well, it looks like circular reasons :-) - kcontrol is not included because it is unmaintained, and it is unmaintained because it was decided not to include it ..."
No: "kcontrol is not included because it is unmaintained, and it is unmaintained because no one stepped up to maintain it". The fact that no one stepped up to maintain it has nothing to do with the fact that KControl wasn't going to be included in KDE4.0, as that decision hadn't been made yet!
And two posts up we have Aseigo saying the exact oposite, that its a small fix but no one stepped up because it was already decided that Kcontrol would go.
Dosn't bother me though, I'm just curious about what actually happened, the interface isn't too important to me just providing SS has the same amount of power as Kcontrol,
Although I would like to see it renamed KSystemSettings. The K always tells me that a piece of software will intergrate into my desktop and won't drag many dependencies along, I'd like to see it continue.
I agree
yeah i like the old way better , +1 :-)
searchable and hierarchic and grouped , what else so you want
> just to make them similar to those in the Windows world
actually, SS is making it more like the mac, not windows. (go look at each of those systems and compare =). i actually know for a fact that the person who started SS had macos in mind.
so ... makes your comment a bit odd ;) but yeah, i understand what you are saying. so here's a solution:
someone can take kcontrol, fix the applnk/->services/ issue, and maintain it as an option in extragear. how's that?
> actually, SS is making it more like the mac, not windows
well, nothing odd and nothing strange - we all know how Microsoft loves to copy ;-)
I've seen such an interface for the first time on Windows XP and I guess it is the same for majority of people, since Microsoft has more market share than all the rest together ... so there is a pretty chance that someone voting for SS over kcontrol is inspired by Windows ... never mind
"such an interface" - I mean icons behind some strange categories; I am not good at guessing what the heck had the author of the icon in mind, so reading the text is much faster for me ... and reading the text is much faster when it is line under line as in kcontrol and not scattered between the icons like in SS (not talking about the number of clicks needed to browse and the strange division General/Advanced - what is more "advanced" in configuring login screen then in configuring printers, for example?)
> i actually know for a fact that the person who started SS had macos in mind.
ok, then he can go and simply buy Mac ;-)
> someone can take kcontrol, fix the applnk/->services/ issue,
> and maintain it as an option in extragear. how's that?
me not, I am not a programmer
- however, you say fixing it is about an hour of work so I am willing to pay one hour wage for this if someone is interested (where to put such a bid?)
It's just a control panel.
I swear, people are so afraid of change. What with this and Konqueror/Dolphin, if everything stays the same - there's no progress. As long as System Settings has all the features of Kcontrol (and there's no reason why it wouldn't) there's no reason to complain.
> if everything stays the same - there's no progress
of course ... but then there is the slight difference between "progress" and "decay"
> As long as System Settings has all the features of Kcontrol
> (and there's no reason why it wouldn't) there's no reason to complain.
but it has not - it cannot be browsed so easily, and it is harder to read the names of the modules one-after-another (actually, the names do not fit below the icons, so I see things like "Size & O...", "Abo...", but I consider it a bug which is going to be fixed before final)
p.s. do you consume only bread & water or do you have wider choice? - after all, it's just a meal, no need to complain ...
> I also prefer the KControl interface over System Settings
As do I. I find System Settings to be lacking in one important area: and that is search. In KControl, I was able to search for a setting if I had no idea where it would turn up. I found that a *very* usefull feature, as it is inevitable that with the amount configurability that KDE provides (and wich we all love, don't we?), choices will have to be made where to put what setting. These choices will not always be obvious for every user, no matter what grouping and ordering you come up with. Searching for options was a very good way of dealing with that, and that is something I can not see in the System Settings approch. Back to trial and error, I fear...
System settings does have a search field in KDE 4.
that is a showstopper for SS i think.
Thumbs up to Craig for his wonderful work on this one. A proper font management app was/is fairly high up on the list of things lacking in Linux desktops compared to the proprietary competition for creative/artist type users, and it looks like KDE 4 will finally close that gap. Rock on!
Agreed, I find quite amusing that the old interface is in fact better than the new interface, as it show the fonts with different size, which is an important feature..
The large preview is still available, its just not shown by default. An option in the "Settings" menu controls whether it is shown or not.
Great. Love the new interface!
The only thing I would like to change is the order of the items in the "toolbar":
The filter bar ("Type here to filter on family") first, then the ComboBox and finally the Settings Button, something like this:
[_____Filter Bar______] ( ComboBox |v) [ Settings ]
Don't know why, just fint it more logical that way. (Specially with the preview enabled, I would like to have the filter bar above the list and not over the preview).
That's just my personal opinion, don't know what's best usability-wise.
Once again, great work, keep it up!
even if the ordering is kept, a little whitespace between the widgets would go a long way =)
Great that the font preview is still there. I just don't get the position of the Settings in the menu bar. It has nothing to do with the filtering options that are there as well. Maybe the button should go somewhere around the Defaults button, or in the toolbar on top?
Also, maybe the title "Install Preview Fonts" isn't very clear. Unless you are actually installing previews of fonts (whatever that may be, time limited or incomplete in glyphs maybe?), I would say that "Install & Preview Fonts" (if you want to keep both terms) would be clearer.
I'm no UI expert, as you can tell. But, I can't put the "Settings" button/menu next to the "Defaults" button as that's controlled via kcmshell, and I can't put it in the toolbar as that's "System Settings" toolbar. A KControl module can only place widgets between the top toolbar, and the bottom row of buttons.
..but I'm more than willing to re-arrange things if possible.
The title is "Install & Preview Fonts" - I guess KTitleWidget doesn't like the '&'
Ah, ok, that clears it up. Still, it is a dilemma, as those locations would be far better for this, I think. Ah well, I guess someone will come up with a better and actually implementable suggestion.
About the &: it is used for the shortcut key. Try && instead :-)
You can escape the "&". I believe with "&&".
The new oxygen style looks nice. But, those the tabs are going to end like that? The old oxygen tabs were far better (I know you told me to don't fuck whit the artist part).
And, I have another question:
Will the animation (like tab change) still be there?
Sorry for my poor English, see you
Only the active tab is done, and I don't know exactly what Nuno has in mind. So don't be too worried yet. I'm pretty sure it'll end out great.
Animations will not be done in 4.0, simply because there isn't time. If tabs will have animation in the future I can't say.
Ok, thanks for the info. Nuno is awesome, so I won't worry :P
Sadly I liked the tab animation. But, all animation are gone? Like menu animations, hover animations, etc?
If they are, it's a bad new (but not important, I found them to be nice, but not a "must have").
I hope you and all developers keep doing this amazing work!
See you.
> Sadly I liked the tab animation
The tab animations had performance problems, especially with applications such as Konqueror where the content area of the tab is large.
It was an interesting idea, but unless they happen very quickly I think it will detract from the overall experience.
But, what about the other animations?
And, yes, In Konqueror it had some lag. You're possibly right.
I wonder if those nuno mockups are what is on his mind:
http://www.jarzebski.pl/read/nowy-styl-oxygen.so
wow.. that's the coolest theme i've ever seen (from your link)... would be cool if there'll be such a theme/plasmoids when kde 4.0 is released!
hm.. sad thing that the animations will be gone for 4.0 ... they were really cool.. and i for myself have never encountered any performance problems with them... but if it helps to make kde 4.0 stable it's ok for me ^^
yeah, I like the mockup better than the preview screenshot in the digest.
That's a really nice theme, something like that should the the default theme for KDE 4!
Hopefully KDE4 will have support for SVG based themes.
So the mockups creatos will be able to convert their art into themes more easily and we will have some really nice themes.
Don't worry too much about KDE4 default theme. Remeber KDE 3.0 and see what people are using today and you will see that the default theme isn't a major one, or even that the default look of kde 3.5 isn't the same as KDE 4.0 :)
Reading the commit changes from Henrique Pinto,
"* Removing ark from trunk/.
This version was basically very bug ridden and not maintainable.
I have a rewrite almost ready in a branch, which will go back here when ready. Unfortunately, this will only happen for KDE 4.1, as the feature freeze is today and my code is not ready for it just yet."
Does this mean Ark wouldn't be available on KDE 4.0? I hope not, Ark is one of the program I used frequently. Maybe it can be put late as an exemption? I just don't think it's a good idea to leave it behind for KDE 4.0. I could just see people complaining that they can't open zip files on the brand new KDE
To quote Henrique Pinto:
"Yesterday, I was informed that the feature freeze would be today. As Ark was
not ready for that freeze yet, I removed it from trunk. Then, Dirk Mueller
told me that if had not done that, I would be allowed to substitute the
current Ark version with the new one I'm developing in a branch, but now I
couldn't do it anymore because it would be considered a new application.
...."
"We're not intransigent. I think we can let you bring it back, as long as
you do it soon.
Do you think you can have Ark done for the KDE 4.0 final release? If you
think you can, that's all we need." -- Thiago Macieira
In short, it'll be back. I'm sure any extra help getting it whipped up into shape for KDE4 would be appreciated tho.
hm.. i really hope that he gets ark back into trunk in time... otherwise it seems to me that kde 4.0 get's a bit cut atm.. i know that it's just a first step to the perfect kde4 release ^^ but it hurts to hear that some things get removed i really liked :-(
I think that Henrique could create a list of "junior jobs" needed for Ark. If it wasn't C++ I would love to help but anyway maybe this way someone could step in and help with Ark development.
Nice idea, I'll create the list. Thanks!
These artistic things are very complicated, it's a pity the other maintainer abandoned the project rather then work with the suggestions, but I think I know how he felt when the complaints started appearing.. I almost went frenzy on my work when we started discussing a presentation I was making for a conference..
When he says: "Let's leave the artistic stuff to the artist, please!", I hope the artists actually improve this theme, because IMHO this theme is not very nice, and I think this new kde4 theme must be awesome, like the Oxygen's icons, so we will have a great advantage against vista artwork (which one I don't like), and be on pair with osx, it would be great :)
But I trust Nuno, who is a great artist, and the other guys in the artistic part of the widget style.
Looks pretty smooth from that one screenshot, without being gaudy.
And check here for the target look:
http://www.jarzebski.pl/read/nowy-styl-oxygen.so
In fact no - don't do that as those are out of date, and in fact have never been the target, but only trials.
And they were "stolen" without asking the artist afaik
For what it's worth the screenshot I provided is also not the finished look. Just take a look at the broken headline of the groupboxes for evidence of the beta state.
Well, the shots look a lot like your work, and like what Thomas did (pity he left, btw).
Sorry if this isn't the real target, I won't link to it anymore...
hell, am i dreaming !!!! this is the best mock up i saw for graphic user interface