Polls are an oft-requested feature of the dot. KDE.com has risen to the challenge with its latest user poll: "What Should Be the Highest Priority of KDE Developers Leading Up to KDE 2.2?". I just installed Linux Mandrake 7.2 (until my SuSE package arrives), and after upgrading to KDE 2.1.1, I feel that a KDE port of the configuration utilities could bring a huge amount of polish to this distribution. A KDE interface to Linuxconf might be a good start. Others would however prefer a KDE installer, and some simply think that KDE should be faster and/or less of a memory hog. Here's your chance to cast a vote and voice an opinion.
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Hello,
At first thank you for the very good job of KDE 2.
No, I don't think that configuration tools are a priority, even if it would be nice to have an icon to change the screen resolution or to stop-restart-jump music.
I feel that the first priority is to have MS import-export tools in Koffice, and -more - to work with MS formated files as easily than in the MS programs. Included the feeling. For instance it is a pity to see in KWord that ctrl + left key don't jump a word (it is done in Kedit or Kmail)...
Then a better stability and optimization, a well finished work, including an updated and translated documentation. My bigger trouble in KDE2.1-Mdk8.0 is to find that my child panel is empty after a restart of KDE... I am irritate in Quanta Plus when I find that the tool bars are not on the left as I wished on my previous session... and the copy-paste is troubled with the use of the third mouse button... And many others details to improve... I hope to find the same look and feel in all the KDE programs, and, so, it needs more parameter in the "look and feel page" of the control panel. Also a "Save configuration" command in all the KDE programs, even (chiefly ;-)...) in the KReversi...
Also :
- For konqueror
-- a better integration with samba, for instance an easier configuration of the local network (I did not reach to install it (in the left frame)),
-- and also for the ftp icon (very powerful, but it is not easy to put an ftp site on it), and also for the http icon (however it seems less interesting, but I don't know how to use it)
-- use the back key to go to the previous page
-- add a "copy with options" for changing or not the owner and group of copied files
-- in mp3 directories display the mp3 tags (but better than in Nautilus, please, with all the tags)
-- make the "+", "-" cases available (in the hierarchy frame) on the mounted disks
-- on a Html page, let the "Open with..." opening Kedit on the true source in update mode, not on the tmp source in read-only mode
-- have more profile (one for documentation, as someone says)
-- make easier to have java and flash support. I tried but not succeeded and I don't think it is well documented...
-- have more buttons in the tool bars (See hidden files, see Index files...)
-- have more efficient downloadings
- I wish a fast image browser (like ACD See). Perhaps ShowImg is the solution, but it is not in Mdk 8.0 and I didn't reach to install it...
- improve Quanta Plus, very good program ! At first fix the bugs, make documentation and translations...
- improve noatun, at first for mp3 management, so that it will be as good as Xmms, even better
- improve Kmail, Korganiser and the adress book so that they work together
- add sheets to Kedit so that it becomes multi-documents (see Notetab, in Windows, the best graphic text editor...)
- I also think that "a professional sound recording and editing software is missing"
- a "Quicken like" program is also a good idea
- create a KAtaxx game, better than GAtaxx, which is a poor ataxx (see ideas on my site http://pressibus.org/ataxx) (it is possible to use the very good GPL game Extreme Ataxx, see my site, in the win section)
I hope again to be astonished...
--
Alain
"improve Kmail, Korganiser and the adress book so that they work together"
This is being worked on.
"add sheets to Kedit so that it becomes multi-documents"
There will be a new editor in KDE 2.2 called Kate. It is very nice. It has a sidebar that lets you switch between many open text files and a nice fileselector.
"a "Quicken like" program is also a good idea"
I believe that Kapital by theKompany (www.thekompany.com) is exactly what you are looking for. Buy it and support theKompany! They have been contributing a lot to KDE development.
Ok, I'm off topic for the discussion, but I feel compelled to agree with you about sawfish.
It really is the *most* configurable wm around. The power that lisp provides without any necessity for recompiles is virtually limitless.
As David wrote in another post, for anyone who thinks kwin comes close in configurability they should check out sawfish and it's config utility before posting anymore....I guarantee you there's a good chance you won't look back :-)
To get (somewhat) back on topic, due to the NETWM spec compiled by both KDE and GNOME camps together, sawfish should be as integrated as kwin and vice versa wrt their respective desktop environments.
Well ... just to be clear:
I don't ask that KWin emulate Sawfish. Sawfish isn't really fast. It's rather complex. It might eventually suffer from serious bloat problems, due to its easily-extensible nature.
I don't suggest that KWin in any way be modified. It simply isn't aimed at the segment of the market which I occupy. Unfortunaly, most ardent *nix/Open Source supporters are indeed in the same segment as myself.
So, the solution? Use the right tool for the right job. Sawfish caters to my segment, and I'm happy with it. Just a bit more collaboration to make the two(Sawfish and KDE2[Konqueror and kicker specifically]) co-operate better would be ideal :)
Thanks again :)
I use Windows at school, and triple clicking highlights a whole line throughout the system.. so people from other OSes (like me) *would* go around triple-clicking things, as I have been :P Double-clicking should highlight a word, triple-clicking should highlight a line.
Also, if there isn't one.. a KDE update program would be nice. I know I sound lazy, but if you want to make it easy-to-use, this is a must. Maybe you could have it check for updates when the person boots up (if on a constant connection) or when the person connects to the internet, then make a window pop up asking if they'd like to update it. All they should have to do is click "yes" and then, when it's done, click "ok" to verify that they know it's done. Anything else would complicate things too much.
-John
At the time of this writing, "Configuration Utilities" have the highest number of votes. Are distributions really doing that bad of a job, and now KDE is to come to the rescue?
I also notice 0% for Docs and Translations. There are quite a bit of translations at this point, but let's all not forget docs. Although this is a poll of priority. All items on the list are important.
I voted for Konqueror. IMO, the most important items on the list are: KOffice, Konqueror, Speed, and Stability. However, Konqueror is KDE's key application (KOffice is too, but Konqi is more-so). Stability is quite good for KDE right now. Also, Konqueror in particular is probably the only app that truly needs a speed boost, since it is fired-up so often. So this kills two birds in one stone ("Speed" and "Konqueror").
4-5 seconds to start up is acceptable for a web browser, but not for a file manager (especially when competing with the unix shell prompt!). Maybe the file manager components could be preloaded by option? I'm not using CVS, does anyone know if this has been attempted/considered yet?
-Justin
>Are distributions really doing that bad a job
Oh yes.
Every distro I have ever seen has managed to mangle KDE somehow, and graphical config tools are generally just plain sucky.
Perhaps its time for KOLD (KDE Oriented Linux Distribution)
Which KDE distribution are good, which are not so good ?
Good: Caldera, Mandrake,... ???
Not so good: RedHat,... ???
I hear the next Caldera version will NOT support the AMD K6-II processor, it makes me a bit sad. I've have got the impression its the best KDE distro around, and I want to try it, but I'm not gonna buy a new PC to run it :-(
Caldera: Hmm, i had forgeten about this one. Tried 2.3, was very well done KDE implementation, but everything else was bs.
Mandrake: Frankly, just not all that great. The speed introduced is not worth the various bugs and convolutions introduced. Universal menus? Ick
Admittedly, I'm using Mandrake right now, but in order for it to be usable at all, I recompiled QT and KDE, and removed the autologin and redid several X config files.
I've heard from other KDE'rs that Debian is a great OS overall, since it is much more oriented towards the whole idea of Open Source in general, rather then trying to sell it as a product. Also, the new packages are supposed to be great, even if they are marked "unstable". I keep meaning to try that OS...
The only thing is that you shouldn't expect to find a graphical configuration utility in Debian -- there isn't for the most part (yes, linuxconf is in the dpkg databases and can be installed, but never by default). Probably one of the neatest features of Debian is the Debian menu system -- a unified menu of all X applications that is automatically updated for virtually any desktop or window manager you choose, including such favories as twm, fvwm, etc. You don't need to worry about some of the silliness behind the disagreement with panel menu file format differences, so installing a gnome program (say, like XMMS or The Gimp) into an otherwise KDE-only system works and is accessable from your standard menu.
On the console side, there's the "Alternatives" system that allows you to install a few different programs that serve basically the same purpose (like nvi, vim, elvis, etc), and decide which one will handle the default startup command (like "vi" for those three vi clones I mentioned).
And do I even have to mention "apt"? My only complaint is that KPackage is a little too RPM centred, in that packages for RPM only have two real states -- installed or not installed. Debian packages have quite a number of different states, including installed, held, removed, purged and unconfigured. Unforuntately, that often ends up forcing you to ultimately use dselect, which despite being rather quirky, does it's job extremely well.
About those menus : Mdk tried the same thing, and it just plain died. Debian does this correctly, then?
Oh yes, the Debian menu is a seperate submenu. It leaves your regular K menu alone. Also, it doesn't have ugly icons :-)
idea:
I seem to remember that CVS has the
ability to only fully load konqi for its
first instance and for all new windows to
simply become new windows for this instance.
Therefore, together with --geometry 0x0-0x0
and --desktop 6 (does this option exist yet?
iirc cvs has it) why not just create a simple
script that run's konqi with those options
on startup. Something like:
startkonqi:
while true do
konqueror --geometry --desktop 6
done
Or even better, any way of making a window
disappear from the taskbar? (cmdline option
rather than just a devel thing)
Wow, i've forgotten bash syntax...
Alex
Look at SuSE 7.1, they have their configuration utilities (YaST2) not only as stand-alone program, but also embedded into the KDE control center. Only problem is that it takes too long to start up YaST2's modules.
This is the way all distributions should handle it. I've attached a screenshot of what it looks like.
/Trynis
Will it work behind a proxy?
Looks nice...
however, what I'm interested in is the corruption of the highlight rectangle around the text 'Online Updates' (the fact that the bottom isn't straight)
I have this same problem occuring all over the place on my system. Originally I thought it had something to do with the fonts I was using... however many combination later I'm not so sure.
It seems to be bug in X. Check out this comment
http://dot.kde.org/988313536/988326287/988351061/988352473/988363914/988...
I wonder if there are any patches to X 4.0.3 that fix this... I'm not too keen on getting X from CVS.
My wife and I use one computer. Wouldn't it be great if I could put my work to sleep or run it in the background, switch the computer over to her account, and five minutes later when she's done doing whatever it is she does, switch back to my account. I hear Windows XP will have this feature.
It's not the most important feature in the world but it sure would be cool/convienent.
you can already do it..
switch to a console (Ctrl-Alt-F1), login as root, type "startx :1" (i don't remember the exact command.. but its similar) and you'll get another X running. Now you can switch between the two Xs at Ctrl-Alt-F7 and Ctrl-Alt-F8
You could even start the second X Server from an xterm/konsole in the first X session. This way you'll be brought back to you desktop automagically if the second X sessions ends. My grildfriend and I are doing this as it's a very nice solution if you just have to wirte an eMail fast or something similar...
The other way suggested would have the advantage that you can lock your first X session before starting the second so this solution should be reasoably secure. (At least for not-too-security-critical use of the machine. I don't think secrutity matters that much if you and your wife are the only users of the machine.)
Greetinx,
Gunter Ohrner
while I can see that this provides a working solution, why not take a more minimalistic approach. On my machine my girlfriend does:
xhost +
rlogin busoni -l linda
kmail &
I bet this is faster than starting a whole new X session.
As you can see I'm not worried about security vulnarabilities, but I don't think most people do in a home environment.
This sounds pretty neat.
So (If I had enough ram) I could start 2 kdm sessions on differnt virtual terminals?
Instead of logging out I could just lock the screen and let somebody else log in on the second one?
I wonder how hard this would be to automate...
sarang is correct although the command is just a little off. To open an additional X session go to an unused console and type:
startx -- :1
This will start an additional X session accessable if one hits ctl+alt+F8 several more sessions can be started if one replaces the 1 with 2 or 3 and so on. A window manager can also be specified in the command such as:
startx /usr/bin/kde2 -- :1
Any window manager that is installed can be specified here.
------------------------------------------
As far as improvements to KDE I agree that a file browsing window should net take > 5 seconds to open. Thats fine for a web browser be not a file or help browser. One begins to wonder weather the window is coming up if if one should click again.
You guys have done an incredible job though with your desktop enviroment. I'm a huge fan of KDE and hope to be developing KDE apps soon. Keep up the amazing work!
Nathan Jett
you can use k secure shell(k->internet)! Simply type in the username and press connect.
Start the programm you want out of the new terminal. The apps from different persons will run on top of your desktop.
There is nothing faster ;-)
This works also remote:
instead of localhost, type in the url to the remote computer. *quite* impressive!
By the way - Windows XP switching needs *lots* of RAM - thus decreasing overall performance and will not be much faster than log out - log in.
(The well known c't Computer Magazine allready sent kudos to kde for its switching technology...:-)
you can use k secure shell(k->internet)! Simply type in the username and press connect.
Start the programm you want out of the new terminal. The apps from different persons will run on top of your desktop.
There is nothing faster ;-)
This works also remote:
instead of localhost, type in the url to the remote computer. *quite* impressive!
By the way - Windows XP switching needs *lots* of RAM - thus decreasing overall performance and will not be much faster than log out - log in.
(The well known c't Computer Magazine allready sent kudos to kde for its switching technology...:-)
you can use k secure shell(k->internet)! Simply type in the username and press connect.
Start the programm you want out of the new terminal. The apps from different persons will run on top of your desktop.
There is nothing faster ;-)
This works also remote:
instead of localhost, type in the url to the remote computer. *quite* impressive!
By the way - Windows XP swithing needs *lots* of RAM - thus decreasing overall performance and will not be much faster than log out - log in.
(The well known c't Computer Magazine allready sent kudos to kde for its switching technology...:-)
Currently when my dad needs to surf the net, he simply clicks the Link to Application I've created for him, running Konqueror with his user, getting his own bookmarks and even Russian localization (while I use the English one).
Since I assume you and your wife trust eachother not to sabotage each other's work :), you can simply create two named desktops, one for you and one for your wife, and leave your applications on your own desktop.
What you want already exists: it's called "vnc"
Your wife's complete desktop would then
be just one mouseclick away.
Any chance of storing a reference to all
files currently loaded in konqueror and
allowing them to be easily reloaded?
Wierd interface idea, how about extending
the current history support with a flag
showing the window is open.
Then add the "yesterday", "last week" feature
that tacket (iirc?) put in one of the 2.1
idea screenshots but with an added "crashed session" category?
thanks,
Alex
yes!
Now I simply stay logged in, because I have thousands of konquerors and konsoles and I don't want to loose my environment by logging out.
Configuration Utilities are the last thing that
should be on the list. Each distribution is
responsible for developing those aspects.
To ask KDE to do so would be a monumental waste
of resources. What linux needs is a fully
functional web browser that supports todays
standards and extensions AND is fast. Second
we need office tools and fonts.
The largest roadblock I have hit when trying
to get family and friends to try linux
are the lack of a good browser, office suite
and e-mail. They like te existing products that
they use. Try to get a novice user like your
grandmom to switch from using IE5,
Word and Outlook to Netscape, emacs and mutt.
Configuration is not the answer. Most people
buy a computer and plug it in. That's it. To
them it is like another electric appliance.
Let the distributors and OEM's worry about
configuration. KDE bring us more productivity
apps my mom can use
I know blah blah ...If they can't use a computer
they should'nt have the privelige of using
linux. The same argument could be used as such
..If a user cant install and configure a box from
the command line...should they be using it?
Linux needs growth on the desktop market and I applaud KDE's efforts for making linux more
useful to people.
Netscape, emacs and mutt?
Never heard of:
konqueror(www.konqueror.org),
kmail(devel-home.kde.org/~kmail) and
kword(www.koffice.org/kword)?
I agree with the original post, I think KDE is mature enough to be used as a desktop replacement for windows. The problem are the apps. I personally use Konqueror for browsing, but quite often I have to start Opera or Netscape because Konqueror could not handle the page. I think the KDE team has done a great job, and it would be even better if they would concentrate in polishing the existing features instead of adding new ones. And remember, we can say we have one of the best desktops out there, but without professional apps like compilers, cross compilers, embedded tools, CAD, etc, the choice for serious work not related to networking will remain WinNT. I hope the tandem KDE/Qt will change that very soon.
Jose
Well, perhaps you're right about konqueror, though it's along time since I've had any progblems with it but perhaps I've just been lucky.
But I still can't see why you'd have to use mutt for emails, kmail does the job just fine I think... and it's easy to use.
And true, I don't use word processores all that much so perhaps I should'nt comment on that issue. But mutt? what is wrong with kmail?
I absolutely agree. I would add that the ability to import and export without flaw Microsoft Word and Excel documents is also essential. This would enable people to swap documents between their work environment (which is currently likely to be Microsoft) and their home Linux systems.
KDE's desktop is already up to scratch, but with fully functional and Microsoft compatible office suites, browsers, etc., people who are not interested in the niceties of operating systems and software, but who simply want something that they can use, are much more likely to be enticed to try Linux. I might even be able to convert the other members of my family!
I sure agree with DanM that the one of the most important features needed right now is a web browser that can be a replacement to IE5. An office application is also of very great importance because that is I guess one of the most used applications. I have been working in a Unix environment the last 1.5 year and therefore
"converted" from Windows to Linux (SuSe 7.1) and really appreciate the stability and speed of LInux/KDE. The KDE 2.1.1 is great. But there is one drawback though and that is the lack of an office application. I use StarOffice 5.2 and it's do it's job but I do miss Microsoft Office sometimes. I've also tried out Applixware and this Office application is fast and nice but dosn't support Word documents other than through RTF format and also have problems with using Excel formated spreadsheets. So from my point of view an Office suit (mostly Word processor and Spreadsheet program) that is capable of reading/saving to Microsoft format using TrueType fonts is one of the most important things needed for me (and many other user's I think).
I would really like to see an option to disable automatic copying to the clipboard on selecting text. This is really anoying. I hate not being able to select anything else after something is already on the clipboard. Yes, I know about the clipboard manager thingy saving everything you copy to the clipboard for later use, but it is a pain to have to use that. In the latest version of KDE I didn't even see an option to turn this "feature" off.
This is the job of the toolkit, and thankfully Qt 3.0 will address this problem. There will be two clipboards: one for selection and one for ctrl-C/V/X style. This way you get the best of both worlds.
This is the job of the toolkit, and thankfully Qt 3.0 will address this problem. There will be two clipboards: one for selection and one for ctrl-C/V/X style. This way you get the best of both worlds.
This is the job of the toolkit, and thankfully Qt 3.0 will address this problem. There will be two clipboards: one for selection and one for ctrl-C/V/X style. This way you get the best of both worlds.
Sorry for the flood there. The connection was timing out here, I didn't realize the posts were actually going through..
Yep, QT3.0 will finally do it the X11 way :-)
the selection buffer/quickpaste was never meant to interfere with the explicitly copied and pasted clipboard. One could paste directly from the selection with middle-click (or shift-ins), or do a more permanent copy to a seperate 'clipboard' area explicitly, which would then be preserved.
This is actually how most X apps handle it, Qt just didn't get it quite right (about the only thing they did mess up though!), and I've *very* glad that instead dropping the very useful select-on-copy setup, they actually reread the clipboard docs and are going to fix it right!
Ah ha, Klipper. Pain in the ass waste of memory that you can't turn off. This was once a part of KDE utils but the developers deemed it so good that it got in to base, why?? You can turn it off by deleting the autostart file though which is:
/usr/local/kde/share/autostart/klipper.desktop
Of course if you installed kde in usr/local that is, regardless it's in share/autostart under your main kde path.
I'd like to see KDE add NOTHING else till it's cleaned up a bit. Strip base down to be a base system and nothing else: Window manager, panel, konqy & things like the control center. Essentials without the nice to haves. KDE is too damm big
Are you one of those people with a 486 and a 500 meg hard drive? lol
I don't think KDE is too big at all. The auto-copy on selecting text it just really really anoying and you can't even turn it off.
I vote for "Configuration Utilities". I've tried "sndconfig", "linuxconf", "Xconfigurator", "Xdrake", "chkconfig", "ifup, ifdown", "network", "Mandrake Control Center", "Desktop Switching Tools", etc. Having a nice user interface, and centralize these configure utilities are a bless.
What I want is to be able to turn on and off services in KDE Control Center, configure my apache, configure my ftp, configure my ssh, configure my smtp, configure my pop3, configure my network, configure my usb hardware, configure my PCMCIA adapter, configure my monitor, configure my screen resolution, configure my sound, and and and ...:) This will make my life, my friends, my co-workers, and billions who will use KDE after us a happier camper.
What I want second most is KOffice. I compiled a CVS version yesterday. It's in terrific shape. There's this one bug that I find Kivio should be at 1.0, is the connector thingy. It's not connecting. I used to be able to connect in 0.9 or something. KWord is improving quite well. What I want in KOffice is to copy and paste embedded objects. For example I would like to select a part of KSpread and want to paste it in KWord. Another feature is drag and drop. Being able to drag an object from KWord and drop it in KSpread or KPresenter would be awesome.
My third is Konqueror. There are some websites Konqueror is not rendering correctly, www.espn.com for example. A feature I want in Konqueror is to sort the "History" by date or categorize by date rather than have a list of URL visited. Another feature I want is the ability to drag an image from a website and drop it in my desktop. Yet another feature I want is to be able to paste over selection in the "Location"; it's annoying to me to select the URL in "Location" and when I tried to "paste" my previously copied URL, it simply use the current selected URL. This got to be very annoying.
My fourth is speed. I don't particular care too much about speed since I don't turn my computer off often. :)
Thank you for listening.
--kent
I agree for the most. KDE team is doing an excellent job, but maybe it's time to get real system configuration utilities in KDE Control Center.
Getting configuration utilities to work needs a lot work, and I think we should get distributors making those apps to KDE. This way KDE developers do not have to spend their valuable time making these tools. Most distros make their configuration utilities with GTK, which makes their look&feel different from KDE. Since KDE is used on most Linux (*nix) desktops, those utilities should be in KDE Control Center.
About KOffice, what we really need is FILTERS. I know that this has been discussed on developer lists and lot has been done (look at KOffice site), but Krayon, KIllustrator and Kivio are not very useful without filters.
KDE team has done very good job already, and hopefully I can help them more in future. So far I've done some translating.
I agree too.
If its Mandrake, RedHat... should not make the big difference on Linux configuration. Of course, KDE cannot configure the various application that the different Distribution contribute with, but "standard" things like, postfix, sendmail, IP security, sndconfig.... SHOULD and MUST be a part of KDE.
Lets take Mandrake. All configuration is done with Gtk+ application. Here you can tune your computer, make software upgrades etc. of course its Mandrake who has made this, but it is a thing that made a couple of people I know switch into Gnomers.
If KDE should win some more "market" it needs to focus on three things, stability, speed and general Linux configuration.
CVS Konqueror permits sorting of History by Date, although it is still organized by sites in this case.
:-)