MAY
26
2004

KDE 3.3 Release Cycle Starts with KDE 3.3 Alpha 1 "Kindergarten"

That's one small step for KDE, one giant leap for Free Software - the KDE 3.3 Alpha 1 has been released to the FTP servers this morning. There won't be any binary packages for this release, everyone using Kindergarten is asked to compile it with --enable-debug, so that we can get valuable feedback. There is a new unstable version of Konstruct also available to install it. Other than that, feel free to play around with things, check if your bugs are still there or if there are places where you can help. Check the KDE 3.3 feature plan for things to look for.

Kindergarten is hopefully only the first step as we're heading for the aKademy.

Comments

I would like to see some changes to the file manger in the area of network. Specifically making it easier for a user to add, delete and modify ftp and websites. I haven't messed with that area of file manger for quite a while but the last time I did it was a very convoluted affair to modify any thing I added to that area. Attached is a snapshot of the area I mean.


By Dennis at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I'd say that a bookmark manager that can show subdirectories would be better. But I'd ignore it all for a bookmark manager that isn't glacially slow. I only have a little over 10,000 lines in my bookmarks.xml, but editing and moving around bookmarks is incredibly slow, making the categorization of them a real pain.


By Evan "JabberWok... at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I've dragged all my bookmarks into a folder, and organized them in subfolders. Works like a charm, no need for a separate bookmarks system.


By Boudewijn Rempt at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

> but editing and moving around bookmarks is incredibly slow

My bet is that for hierarchical and linear data like bookmarks are, KDE DB Framework would be used...one day. XML is usually better for data exchangeability, object-relational database engines are better for storage.


By Jaroslaw Stanie... at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

There is no reason for the XML to make things slow.

After all, why not just load the bookmarks into a structure in memory when they re needed (or even on Konq. startup)? How large can they be?

Then just dump to XML when you have to, and you only have to deal with the overhead of XML every once in a while.


By Roberto Alsina at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Well, you can't make O(1) updates. And of course, QDom is just slow.


By Sad Eagle at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

How long can it take to generate a 2000-object XML thing? And who has over 2000 bookmarks? ;-)


By Roberto Alsina at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

You would be surprised. Some have as many as 9000 bookmarks, BTW -- see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59401. So if you feel bored one day, you may want to consider trying making QDom dumping faster instead of writing spatial file managers :-). I think there were BC difficulties w/that when I took a quick look, though. Hmm, I hear Frerich is hacking on the editor, though.


By Sad Eagle at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

Well, spatial file managers look like more fun ;-)

You know, fancy program that´s probably about 1000 lines of code. QDom, OTOH, is hairy.


By Roberto Alsina at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am

I agree, I never understood the feature that's in your screen shot and how it isn't redundant with bookmarks.


By Ian Monroe at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Well, if the thing was more user friendly, I'd use it for bookmarking ftp sites. Which is what I like it for. It is a bit redundant for websites but does remind me of how you can have Windows display it's "Favorites" on the side. But then there is already a button for that, IIRC.


By Dennis at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

It's not at all redundant. You can have trees of directories in there, and it's possible to have your tree start at any subdirectory (eg: KDE mirror directory). You can't do that with bookmarks.

I find the feature very useful - I use it for various home directories on other machines (ie: sftp://user@host) as well as links to mirrors of KDE and SuSE ftp sites. I've been using it for quite a while now.

The feature itself is IMO quite user friendly, but configuring it certainly isn't. While I'm quite able to go edit a desktop file by hand to get what I want, it certainly shouldn't be the normal way for a user to set anything up.

-- Steve


By Steve at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

What is shown in that snapshot isn't new.

It is in 3.2 branch.

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I know it's not new, just very cumbersome to use. IIRC the last time I fiddled with it I had to drill down/hunt for a number of config files in .kde to change things. Not something a normal user should have to do.

For example, a user creates a new folder, realizes it was named incorrectly then tries to delete it. You can't from the desktop. You have to monkey with config files to get rid of it or right click and move it to another folder and then delete it.


By Dennis at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

> I know it's not new,

Then it would be better to file a wishlist item or discuss this on 'kde-usability'.

> just very cumbersome to use. IIRC the last time I fiddled with it I had to
> drill down/hunt for a number of config files in .kde to change things. Not
> something a normal user should have to do.

IIUC, this is used to for your network configuration and what you get as a default is just a demo. Probably not a good idea -- it might be better to leave it blank.

Yes, this appears to be an unfinished feature.

First, there are major problems with the RMB menu.

> For example, a user creates a new folder, realizes it was named incorrectly
> then tries to delete it. You can't from the desktop. You have to monkey with config files to get rid of it or right click and move it to another folder and then delete it.

And your example is the first one, there is no: "Move to Trash" option.

Most of these options in the RMB menu are not usefull here and should be removed (somehow). IMHO, what is needed is a GUI configure tool for this, and IATM that the menu editor for KDE-3.1.x could be modified to accomplish this function -- just remove the features not needed and modify it so that it could only create folders (with names in the '.directory' file) and URL 'desktop' files (it also needs to be able to edit the global configuration if run as root).

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

IIRC, I did file bug/enhancement report. But that's been well over a year ago..... I think. It's been so long I don't remember and to lazy to look it up.


By Dennis at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I don't know that discussing it on kde-usability will do any good. Got off my butt and did a quick search of bugs. Found one going all the way back to kde 2.2.0;

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32224

The person did report as an enhancement, though I am not sure I would have called it that.


By Dennis at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am

Any chance we will see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15848 in KDE 3.3? This is the only feature I miss from Firefox and that keeps me using it though I think Konqui is more elegant, nicer and faster.


By fake guy at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I've been really happy using squid and adzapper. Works for all browsers, only a few minutes to set it up even if you have to install squid.
http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=7556

But I agree it's not a solution for grandma...


By TDH at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I also used to think that it would be nice to have ad blocking right in Konqueror, but I recently started using Privoxy.

Configuration of it is a bit more complex than just the browser, but it does allow much more fine-grained control. It also allows me to keep the same ad blocking regardless of the browser I'm using at the moment, and *all* users of the computer get the benefits of it.


By Carl at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Thanks. I just emerged privoxy, and I must say that it works quite well, even with the default settings.
Anyway, I still think that a konqueror-integrated adblock would be a killer feature.


By fake guy at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

i use opera cause it has flexible settings system.

for example i've choosen to only display chached images.

So if i _really_ need to see any pictures on the web-page, i just press Shift+G, or rmb on particular image (in case when i want to see only one image)

Also, i can quickly (through menu item) disallow scripts to open new windows (tabs).

So, it seems that konq developers should look towards usability alittle...


By Nick Shaforostoff at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

"So, it seems that konq developers should look towards usability alittle..."

Boy, that's a useless statement. By saying it, you realize that you are indicating that konq developers don't do anything "towards usability", whatever that means.


By Joe at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

i meant "little more than today"

btw its hard to express what you think in your 3rd language (to make boast of)...


By Nick Shaforostoff at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Agree me, yes.


By Joe at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

If you can't express relatively simple concepts in a language is it really one that's "yours" at all? or do you really think that knowing N other languages makes it okay to stumble through an N+1th?


By anonymous troll at Wed, 2004/08/04 - 5:00am

Off-line navigations and Adblock capabilities will make KONQUEROR a perfect choice for Linux Web Browser.


By rudgero at Thu, 2004/12/09 - 6:00am

we all want Adblock 4 konqueror!! please..


By carlos at Wed, 2004/08/25 - 5:00am

Kindergarten sounds like a better word for KDE alpha apps.

Will slibo or another chess client be part of KDE games?


By Bert at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Yes! Cool idea, why not rename kdenonbeta to kindergarten? Sweet!


By me at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I like that idea, too.


By cm at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Well, it seems naming-guru Coolo strikes again (think meinproc, unsermake, others ?) ;-)

Alex


By aleXXX at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

What about 'Bratwurst' and 'Sauerkraut' for the next releases...


By punk at Tue, 2004/06/01 - 5:00am

I can't wait for Kopete's interface to be asynchronous!


By ObiTuarY at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Just scanned the feature plan, and found that we finally will get drag & drop of the menu entries - will this also work for the bookmarks in Konqueror ??


By Lars Roland at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Actually from a technical support perspective this feature is the worse feature EVER enabled by default into Windows 2000. 3 yrs ago while I was doing technical support I wouldn't believe the number of users that would call in because they could find an Icon or their toolbar anymore --- And it was always because they had dragged it accidently somewhere else.

Don't beLIEve me - Look at WinXP Pro/Home. Drag and Drop menues are disabled by default.


By thesimplefix at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

If you use poledit or active directory, this is not a problem.

Kiosk ROX :)


By Bellegarde Cedric at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I would disable it by default then. This is a nice to have feature (a simple copy and past context menu is better), but even power users rarely re-organize their menus once they have them sorted.


By David at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I wouldn't disable it completely by default. I think the problematic part is being able to drag things out of menus. This goes against the old behaviour of holding the mouse button down while selecting something from a menu, and is confusing at the least.

Menus should be enabled as drop targets though. Eg: drag a file/program, hold it over the K menu (which springs open), and then you can drop it somewhere in there which would create a link to the original item. After some visual feedback (eg: new entry is highlighted for a second or blinks twice) the menu closes again.

There is similar functionality in WinXP; entries can be removed with right-click->delete. While I'm at it, I'd quite like to see something like Apple's spring-loaded folders too - it'd be nice if all the things that opened as the result of a single drag then closed themselves again afterwards. If the drag knows what it opened, it could send a close signal when it's done. Of course, this functionality would have to be configurable too...

-- Steve


By Steve at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

Konqueror just got spring loading folders that close themselves automatically in cvs.


By matt at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

Well this problem seams to be with many things including KDE - we have 50 desktops running SUSE Linux and Windows XP (dual boot). Many users in the Windows camp have the problems you describe - but I have noticed that the lack of drag & drop in the bookmarks menu in Konqueror and in the kmenu seams to confuse them (I do not support these machines any more, but when I did, editing the menus was a question I got all the time).


By Lars Roland at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I really find the current menu editing scheme very cumbersome, from a user perspective, drag and drop would be a very nice feature to have, I am glad this will be forthcoming!


By Jochen Weiss at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

How about if you CTRL-Drag it it will moooooove


By Aaron Krill at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

SHIFT-Drag = Move
CTRL-Drag = Copy

Don't start unconventional behaviour...


By fprog at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am

I had this idea for some time already, it just so happened that appropriate discussion never came up.

A lot of times I fine that I need to move more than 1 icon/menu item.
After pressing a menu hot key (e.g. CNTRL), the menu would expand about 16 pixels, and a new column would be formed on the right. In that area there would be check boxes. After you release hot key (CNTRL), the are with checkboxes slides back and you can drag items, or choose a different menu and select some more checkboxes :D. It is not really hard to implement, just someone have to do it.

best regards

Oleg M


By Oleg Mitsura at Thu, 2004/06/03 - 5:00am

I hope konqueror could work better with java in this next release. I still can acces my home bank using konqueror. I tried IBM/SUN/Kaffe, etc, and it simple doesn´t work.

Wanna try? The applet doen´st load: www.bradesco.com.br

Some javascripts doesn´t work too: www.balaplanet.com.br

Ok, ok... I just reported the bug...

I like KDE too much, but I still have to use Firefox in this cases.


By Paulo Junqueira... at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Yea, Java that requires a security authorization don't seem to work for me.


By Ian Monroe at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Try turning on the "Use KIO" option in the Konqueror Java configuration.


By Tim at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am


By SPW at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Works fine for me. Get a nice little Java applet that asks me to move my mouse around for a bit, then shows a login screen asking for an account number. That's as far as I can go as I don't have an account with them.

FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT, KDE 3.2.2, JDK 1.4.2.


By Freddie at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Pages