MAR
19
2007

Konsole Usage Survey

Robert Knight, lead maintainer of Konsole has launched a Konsole Usage Survey. 28 questions are waiting for your answers. Use this chance to give useful feedback about a vital and often-used base application of KDE to enable Robert to make Konsole the best console application for KDE 4.

Comments

Thank you Robert for working on improving Konsole even more! I first heard of the survey while reading PlanetKDE and have already completed it :)

Vlad


By Vlad at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

That was a boring survey but I'm sure it'll be worth it :D.


By Kingsley at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

> That was a boring survey but I'm sure it'll be worth it :D.

Did I mention that everyone who completes it gets a FREE copy of KDE 4? ;)

BTW. Before anyone posts about the mistake in Question 8, I know. Unfortunately the software used does not have provisions for making changes after publishing the survey.


By Robert Knight at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

> Did I mention that everyone who completes it gets a FREE copy of KDE 4? ;)
Alright, I did, where is my copy? Come on, give me the damn link!

lg
Erik


By Erik at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

I didn't mean to quote the guy above me.


By Kingsley at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

AFAIC, Konsole is already the best terminal app I've ever used, so congratulations on this one.

It is for me KDE's killer app (even more so than Konqueror & all the others).

I find it very nice though to have this survey to improve it even more, even though I don't understand how you can make a better-than-perfect app! ;-)
Thanks for your efforts on this!

Wackou.


By wackou at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

we are in 2007, and still somme geeky people think that a console is a perfect tool for the desktop.


By djouallah mimoune at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

sheez - relax. he did not say so...


By Anonymous at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

We are in 2007 and I still use, aside from firefox and gaim, almost only konsole, or term based applications to be more specific. Do you have any problem with that?

I don't feel geek, but I do feel that I'm using the right tool for what I need. If it's not your case... man who cares! This is about Konsole, not about "ohh god! still using vim instead of gvim or kate or blablabla"

Cheers,


By Rodrigo at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Well, the truth is that if you don't like it, please use a gui instead. I use the shell primarily for all my tasks. Trust me, the power of the shell has to be learnt and experienced to understand.

All said, konsole is the best shell emulator - the others don't even come close to the tabs, tab shortcut, and bookmark features. I've seen a lot of people flame kde in general, but they all seem to agree that konsole doesn't have a competition :)


By Sarath at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

well, to be honest, I sometimes fire up kde simply because doing console work in konsole is so much more pleasant then using F1-F7

I would morn the day kde removed konsole from it's list of apps.


By Mark Hannessen at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

If you read carefully my post, I didn't say that, however sometimes you *need* a console. I use if mostly for work, but even on the desktop it can prove a useful shortcut in certain occasions.

Just from the top of my head, I had to do this today:
from a base directory, find all mp3 files, and write a text file containing the name of the file without the extension, colon, the full path to the file.
i.e.:
song1: artist/album/song1.mp3
song2: another_artist/different_album/song2.mp3

(the actual task was slightly more complicated, but I simplified it for clarity)

Now, the day some GUI application allows me to do this, in a simple, clean and intuitive way, maybe I'll stop using a terminal. Until then...

Regards,

Wackou.

PS: remember that some people work with their computer, not only use it as a media center...


By wackou at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Well, if we were able to use directory trees as spreadsheet, I wouldn't mind.

You would be doing "basename" functions there on cells instead of `basename ...` calls, etc.

May be even more powerful, if you ask me.

But until then, I agree, the console allows automation with tremendous flexibility that is unmatched.

My digital photos e.g. are mailed to the studio that prints them with KMail and need to be attached. I can't do all in one mail. So it takes me only a little script to feed 10 images per mail automatically into Kmail, with To: and Subject: correctly filled. Would I do this manually, it would hurt me, with like 300 pictures. (Uploading them per HTML form in terms of one by one on a 10 element form would hurt even more, which is their alternative. I could do that with wput, but the email way has the nice advantage of being async and retry, and everything in the background with state of completion, and their email confirmation too).

How on earth would I otherwise e.g. find all ".tar.gz" and repack them into ".tar.bz2" in the background for space savings, without any manual intervention.

For mass renaming operations I used to create scripts, but I now prefer krename for that, as it's more flexible with greater ease (although not more flexible absolute). So that's no longer a point for console. I actually start krename from konsole often though as it's e.g. easier to find files that are not yet renamed with find.

Yours,
Kay


By Debian User at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Wackou

I use computers for my daily work, no problem at this point, yesterday I was reading an IT blog and it seems adobe has released a cross platform runtime environment to deploy a new generation of application like ajax but they still work even offline, it is crazy man, just click a link and it is up and running.
Ok after that I come to the dot, and guess what, people are excited about how Konsole is so cool and sexy. I used console especially for linux, sometimes I have no choice or perhaps I don’t know other ways to do it in a GUI mode.
So my post was rather subjective. And sorry if I hurt your beloved console.

Friendly


By djouallah mimoune at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Hi,

No offense meant (nor taken), don't worry :-)

The thing is, as someone mentioned it before, this article is about Konsole, so yeah, you'll fine people praising a console application here, not that brand new Apollo thingy... I guess people weren't talking about Konsole in the Apollo article, either. It's just the context.

So yeah, among others posts, there's mine saying that for a console app, Konsole is pretty sexy. Of course, at the sexy level, it doesn't even compare to Amarok or other GUI apps, but hell, people never talk about it (Amarok, K3b and Konqueror steal all the fame), so I was quite thrilled that for once, someone was putting Konsole in the spotlight. Which may explain my over-enthusiasm!!

Regards,

Wackou.


By wackou at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

'I guess people weren't talking about Konsole in the Apollo article, either. It's just the context'
No they were speaking about the next generation desktop application paradigm, not about eh 40 years old (perhaps more) user interface
Friendly


By djouallah mimoune at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

And one article the 'next generation desktop application paradigm' (yeah just like XUL was the next generation last generation) was on topic, and on the other the '40 year old user interface' was on topic.

Talking about Apollo here is pointless (unless you're references it as somehow that Konsole can be improved, which hasn't happened).


By Sutoka at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

we're in 2007 and some people still don't understand that advanced users are users too.

You can go ahead and make the desktop as easy to learn, and as easy to use (two completely different, and often conflicting goals) as you like - as long as you don't cripple it for those of us who actually know what we're doing.

Even Apple ship a command line these days.


By mabinogi at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Perfectly agreed.

I use Amarok for listening to my music (and rediscovering it!), K3b to burn CDs, and more generally any GUI app that lets me do the stuff I want the way I want. However, sometimes I _need_ to to console-based stuff, and I am glad to have an equally good application for this, not just some old terminal that sucks...

People do not wonder why we still write programs in a text editor (or IDE), using (oh my god!) a keyboard, rather than connecting blocks with a mouse.

I think it all boils down to the same problem: GUI apps are tailored to a specific task, and allow you (arguably) to perform it in an easier and more intuitive way. However, sometimes you need the flexibility to describe exactly what you want to do, and more often than not, it is much faster to do this by writing it by hand, rather than clicking in a list of options pre-selected for you...

And to expand on the parent's comment, even Microsoft realized they needed a better shell in Vista.

Wackou.


By wackou at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Well, I'm a pretty non-advanced guy who prefers using GUI for nearly anything. And yet I couldn't miss a console, to do certain things.

Konsole is the best for me, although I usually use xterm if I'm in a hurry. Starts fast, no-frills, and it works. And nearly all distro's have it.


By Darkelve at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

We have very powerful and precise machine tools today, but sometimes a hammer and a saw, ancient devices to be sure, are still quite useful. Use the right tool for the job and the one that fits your thinking patterns. For many of us, the terminal is appropriate for many jobs. For others it is not. Use what's best for you and leave everyone else alone.


By me at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

We are in 2007 and there are system administrators who HAVE TO do console work with remote servers that have need to use a graphical desktop as well.
So, what's your point?


By Davide Ferrari at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Fine, I must admit my post was inappropriate for the topic of this dot, I just hate terminal, it remind me of all those dumb terminal we used in university learning FORTRAN ( it was an altrix DEC system)

Cheers


By djouallah mimoune at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

I don't know about you, but I type _much_ faster than I can use a mouse (i.e. my laptop's touchpad). Also, many tasks are far better suited for a terminal (e.g. system administration, running Vim/Emacs, remote system administration via SSH or telnet (!), tasks involving piping output to input like grep/awk/sed/perl/find, movie encoding (!), and many others).

And as many others have already pointed out, we power users are still users, and my guess is that the majority of KDE users are power users (the newbies all seem to flock to GNOME; I blame Ubuntu ;p), so I would hope that they work on programs for us! :)


By matt at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

in my case; I use only linux in my home “mepis”, but in work we use manage very complex projects using planning software and stuff like dynamically linked spreadsheet to database servers, and guess what my colleagues don’t even know what is the meaning of this strange thing – console-
Ok i I don’t know what’s your definition of those users, I suppose as they don’t use console they are just newbie,

My point is stay humble, and the day when we don’t need to open all those weird programs under console just to do a rudimentary operation, then Linux will be a serious choice for desktop users.

Friendly


By djouallah mimoune at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

So where is this Konsole anyway? I can't find the icon anywhere on my desktop toolbar. :(


By KDE Troll at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Well, your KDE is too new then. It used to be there.


By Debian Troll at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Do you at least have an apt-unget in Debian to revert to the previous version of KDE? In Gentoo all I have to do is download the source code for the previous version, recompile it and install it... all in portage.


By Gentoo Troll at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

"In Gentoo all I have to do is download the source code for the previous version, recompile it and install it"

You consider this as an advantage?


By Troll Master at Wed, 2007/03/21 - 5:00am

Flame war alert!


By zonk at Thu, 2007/03/22 - 5:00am

apt-get does it. apt-get install package=versionnumber

Kyle


By Kyle Gordon at Mon, 2007/04/02 - 5:00am

It should be somewhere in the menu.


By ben at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Man, can't you realize that your desktop is a Windows XP.???

You are at the wrong place.


By Pa Troll at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

taaadaaaa : type in multiple tabs simultaniously, perfect for updating multiple machines at once :-)


By lukilak@we at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Wow - thanks for that - one I did not know - along with a few others that the Survey pointed out....
Konsole Just keeps getting better


By Andrew Lowe at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Oh, wow. That's pretty cool.


By Michael at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

oww, I have a nice feature!!

"konsole lists"
description: allows you to insert a list horizontally over all tabs.

step one: create a list with a name:
name: domainlist

with content like:
1: ssh kde.org
2: ssh bugs.kde.org
3: ssh blah.org
4: ssh etc.org

now when you right click on a tab there would be an option "insert list" which inserts content 1 in the tab you are currently in, content 2 in the next tab, etc.

other usefull features would then be:
"auto spawn tabs" when needed, which spawns tabs if there are more list items then tabs. (so you don't have to open 15 consoles before setting the insert in all tabs option)
"switch to insert in all tabs on insert list", allowing you to be extra lazy.


By Mark Hannessen at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Pretty good idea. You could set up a 'default environment'. But it would have to save your passwords too, I guess... might be hard to keep it secure.


By superstoned at Thu, 2007/03/22 - 5:00am

Sweet. How is it going to handle viewing all the sessions? I use clusterssh for that sort of thing and it opens an xterm for each ssh connection and tiles all the windows. With as many machines I admin, I require dual screen to use it, but I don't see any other way. My point is, I need to see all the sessions I'm typing into. Kick ass feature none the less!


By Carl at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Maybe the split-screen function in Konsole in KDE 4 will make it possible???


By superstoned at Thu, 2007/03/22 - 5:00am

In the survey, I asked about "Show Terminal Emulator" in Konqueror. I'm worried that KDE 4 will lose this feature, which I use more often than Konsole. Kate has "Show Terminal" hidden in its menus, and I use this very often as well. I also suggested that "Show Terminal Emulator" be added as a button on all KDE windows.


By Paul Leopardi at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

Agreed. This is a very convenient feature! I am dreaming of the same feature with fish:// in Konqueror. The terminal would launch ssh and would move to the right directory.


By Hobbes at Mon, 2007/03/19 - 5:00am

yes, supporting KIOslaves as good as possible would be great...


By superstoned at Thu, 2007/03/22 - 5:00am

also a very dangerus feature, ever started to write something and then decided to change directory using the gui and it will run that command and change dir. If there is something with rm there you could if your unlucky wipeout your home directory or something


By arne at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

unlucky and stupid, that is...
for real yes, that is a design flaw... rather it should save the typed command in a buffer, remove from the terminal, cd into the new folder and reinsert from the buffer. anyone filed a report yet? X:=P


By eMPee at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

WONDERFULL idea...


By superstoned at Thu, 2007/03/22 - 5:00am

> I'm worried that KDE 4 will lose this feature

based on what, exactly?


By Aaron J. Seigo at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Sorry, just a feeling based on no real evidence. The KDE 4 stuff I have seen so far talks about Dolphin as being the new default file manager. See http://dot.kde.org/1172721427/

The survey is all about Konsole and does not mention "Show Terminal Emulator" in Konqueror. So I jumped to the conclusion that nobody doing KDE 4 cares about this feature any more.


By Paul Leopardi at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

Hello Paul, please don't worry, it is planned to include "Show Terminal Emulator" also in Dolphin and for sure nobody aims to remove this functionality from Konqueror.

Best regards,
Peter


By Peter Penz at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

For one, it is removed from Kubuntu.

I think having YaKuake built into KDE 4 would be a better solution. Then you could just have a tab that automatically syncs to the directory open in dolphin/konqueror/text editor/whatever.

OTOH, I think this is the advantage of Dolphin. since this isnt an often used feature, it can be removed from dolphin but remain in konqueror for the people that want it(and if they use this, chances are, they will also want many of the other features in konqueror that arent found in dolphin).


By Daniel Naber at Tue, 2007/03/20 - 5:00am

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