SEP
2
2002

Linux Journal's Editor's Choice Award

"Linux Journal's Editor's Choice Awards are well-known as the premiere forum recognizing outstanding product developments and achievements in the Linux market. A panel of more than 50 distinguished Linux experts was assembled to nominate products for the awards, which were then sent to the Linux Journal editors who chose the final winners." KDE 3.0 wins the honour of best Consumer Software. Konqueror obtained an honorable mention as Web Client but was beaten up by Mozilla and Galeon. KDevelop also received an honorable mention as Development Tool alongst with Borland Kylix, both being beaten by Emacs -- but had they tried KVim?
The Sharp Zaurus was also selected as best Mobile Device and Product of the Year -- good news for QtE.

Comments

Congratulations, KDE developers! :-)

[ed: seems to be the joe99/dude13/Vitamin C/Mineral K/... troll again. pre-banned user. see html comment if you really want to gratify him and know what he wrote.]


By grapefruit at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

grapefruit: If you are such a cheerleader for Gnome ("go the foot"), why are you posting on a KDE news and discussion site?


By Evan "JabberWok... at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

relax, Evan, he's kinda right, KDE is missing the really good apps as of now. That'll change hopefully soon, but right now, it's the sad truth.


By me at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

I love KDE and am very happy that they got an award for the desktop. There are a number of apps that are really nice in KDE also. I do use Galeon for my web browsing though. It is a clean interface that works well It stays out of my way when I am browsing. It also handles many pages that browsers like Opera and Konqueror just start choking on. The others seem to not be able to do things as well.

I think that it is a mistake to link to closely the desktop with the apps. That is just a M$ way of thinking. I use Open Office for my office suite. I still use Gnome toaster for cd burning (it's the best of the not so good graphical front-ends that I have found). I really like Kwrite when I am editing text in a graphical environment but use VI when I am in text mode.

I have always felt that using Linux is about using what I think is best of breed. That is best of breed for each item, not to be locked down to a whole environment for all the software packages. Some people like emacs, Konqueror, etc. and that is good for them. It hurts the development when people just get in a pissing match about "mine is better than yours". Take some time to look at what others like in other packages and what they hate and everybody will win.


By Rusty at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

I also thought there were only "not so good" cd burning front-ends util I tried K3B (http://k3b.sourceforge.net). Just try it, it's easy to use (DND and co.), very nice looking and... it WORKS !


By Julien Olivier at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

>no konq isnt better than galeon

Yes it is!

>kmail is definietly not better than evolution

Yes it is!

>and theres no comparison with gimp

No there is'nt!

Anything else you wanted to say?


By [Bad-Knees] at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Are gnome message boards still down?


By Anonymous at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Please.. the dot used to be a quiet, friendly place with little flamebait like this. Guess as soon as a site gets past the "known only by the people who enjoy it" stage and becomes more widely known, this is bound to happen. A shame, though.

Reading comments here used to be fun and uplifting. No more.


By Johnny Andersson at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

It's the GNOMEs organized trolling effort.


By ac at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Yet another insightful conspiracy theory from ac.


By Stof at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

sad

divide the sheep,
control the herd.


By m$heaperd at Thu, 2002/09/26 - 5:00am

KMail beats that bloated Evolution/Outlook crap hands down!

Konqueror rules the world. Galeon is not only butt-ugly, its rendering leaves much to be desired.

Graphics Application: Look at Mosfet Paint. :/

Anything else?


By ac at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Sure, if mosfet.org comes back online agaian some day! (that was the right address, right?)


By Johannes Wilm at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

pre-banned abuser
KMail beats that bloated Evolution/Outlook crap hands down!

evolution still kicks ass, and it shows (it got an award)

> Konqueror rules the world. Galeon is not only butt-ugly, its rendering leaves much to be desired.

Konq is just a wannabe IE. Galeon renders as good as moz (funny that)...keep on waiting for your konq-tabs. Its old news for galeon and opera users.

> Graphics Application: Look at Mosfet Paint. :/

this cant even compare to 5% of gimps functions, its a joke. cant you live with a gnome/gtk app that does the job, accept it, theres no KDE/QT comparison to gimp.

> Anything else?

Sure! some Gtk/Gnome apps..
gaim, xmms, pan, abi, gnumeric, dia, xchat

the k* versions of these apps suck, they're feature-less, less mature, crash more often, less developers, less organised...if you want a real joke, look at koffice in comparision. har har
-->


By kiwifruit at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

"Sure! some Gtk/Gnome apps..
gaim, xmms, pan, abi, gnumeric, dia, xchat"

XMMS is not a GNOME-app. GNOME can't claim credit for XMMS or anything related to it. Besides, I happily use it in my KDE-desktop. Just typical... GNOME tries to take credit for Gtk-apps that have nothing to do with GNOME.


By Janne at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

pre-banned abuser
"Sure! some Gtk/Gnome apps..

GTK is the common toolkit, xmms/gaim isnt a gnome app, but has the same toolkit as used by gnome. QT-only apps are very-far and few between. GTK is still a very popular toolkit, more so than QT. examples like edonkey, xsane, freeciv, mplayer are more native-looking in a GTK/GNOME environment, with GTK+ themes kicks in, where buttons/dialogs etc have a similar feel, which is obvious since gtk+ handles that. You jumped on this guy because you assumed he meant they're gnome apps, what he was probably meaning "(Gtk or Gnome)" not strictly Gnome.

Its kinda of strange how you like to bring posters down, who make holes in the kde desktop, KDE isnt perfect, neither is Gnome. But when some say KDE isnt perfect, you flame them heavily. The orginal poster was right, you have a good desktop, but you lack decent applications, Gnome has the applications but lacks the complete desktop. Sure people may think K* is the best thing since sliced bread, in truth, its not. Learn to accept that not every KDE application is as good as the GTK+ (or) Gnome versions.

This isnt a Flame. Dont take it the wrong way.

--
dude_13
-->


By dude_13 at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

"Its kinda of strange how you like to bring posters down, who make holes in the kde desktop, KDE isnt perfect, neither is Gnome. But when some say KDE isnt perfect, you flame them heavily. The orginal poster was right, you have a good desktop, but you lack decent applications, Gnome has the applications but lacks the complete desktop. Sure people may think K* is the best thing since sliced bread, in truth, its not. Learn to accept that not every KDE application is as good as the GTK+ (or) Gnome versions. "
===========================

You keep on talking about "you don't have the apps". So I assume that you don't run KDE? Then why are you here? What purpose does it serve to come here and try to ruin others discussions? KDE won an award. You can't just leave it at that, you (and I mean all of you) have to come here and start shouting "Nah, KDE still blows. You may have decent desktop, but your apps suck!". What does it matter to you if KDE won an award? It just seems like you people are annoyed when KDE wins something. Why don't you go play with your own desktops then and leave KDE-users with their desktops?


By Janne at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

> So I assume that you don't run KDE?

you assume too much.

--
dude_13


By dude_13 at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Why when faced with criticism about their product, do some people turn into hotheads? Why can't they take the valid criticism and ignore the jibes. I run BOTH desktops and I get sick and tired of little children fighting all the time - my dad is bigger than your dad. It puts a lot of normal people off.

Take the criticism, which shows maturity and if you disagree with this person you can show him with better applications.


By John at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

i am really getting sick and tired of this stupidity.

here's some insight for all of you that evidently lack the ability to procure it on your own:

o if you are going to highlight the weak points of product, highlight ones that are worth highlighting. the issues you bring up are by no means the most interesting nor the most factual nor the deepest issues KDE has. you are right that KDE isn't perfect, but if you could demonstrate some ability to see WHAT wasn't perfect instead of parroting the same tired nonsense then perhaps people would take what you say a bit more seriously.

o remember Thumper in Bambi? "if you don't have nuffin' good to say..." seriously, why do people need to say negative things at every opportunity? how about pass up every other urge to say something negative? we'd be half as negative and the message would still get through, i assure you!

o if you want to chat up GNOME, Windows, MacOS, go somewhere where you are actually on topic. it's like discussing growing watermellons on a board about meteorology. W T F?

those who are posting negative, angst-driven, controversial posts for no reason other than to make themselves feel good, put down others, start arguments, do something with their empty hours, etc are not doing anything to help anyone.

this is about a community, people. and those of you flaming back and forth are tearing it apart. there are people who are providing input into the KDE project that i personally find annoying or disagree with, but i value their input and therefore treat them and their ideas with respect, as do the vast majority of others. so put some positive effort into things or fuck off, for all i care.


By Aaron J. Seigo at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Konqueror is not just a Web Browser so it is a mistake comparing
them.


By KDE User at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

> evolution still kicks ass, and it shows (it got an award)

I agree.. no need to lambast a good program just because it uses another toolkit. Evolution is a fine program, and so is kmail :)

> Konq is just a wannabe IE. Galeon renders as good as moz (funny that)...keep on waiting for your konq-tabs. Its old news for galeon and opera users.

Konq isn't exactly a wannabe IE, but I agree that Mozilla/Galeon still render a bit better than Konq. "Tabs" themselves are nothing new in galeon. They were in opera for a long time before galeon came around.

> this cant even compare to 5% of gimps functions, its a joke. cant you live with a gnome/gtk app that does the job, accept it, theres no KDE/QT comparison to gimp.

I agree, hopefully the GIMP developers will FINALLY make GIMP toolkit independent in gimp 1.4/1.5/2.0, like they have been promising to for the last 128812178921289 years. ;)

On the other hand, looking from another perspective, you could have said the same thing about GIMP vs. Photoshop 7. While GIMP is close to Photoshop 2.1, 2.5, or (a little bit further from) 3.0, it's still waaaay far away from PS 5.0-7.0.

> Sure! some Gtk/Gnome apps..
> gaim, xmms, pan, abi, gnumeric, dia, xchat

> the k* versions of these apps suck, they're feature-less, less mature, crash more
> often, less developers, less organised...if you want a real joke, look at koffice in
> comparision. har har

I think this has seriously changed in the last six months. Kopete is getting nearly as good as gaim, noatun as good as xmms (and I couldn't stand noatun until recently, but now it's pretty usable), knode has always been as good as pan, and koffice 1.2/cvs is a vast improvement. In kde 3.1, ksirc has fixed a number of long standing bugs, and kvirc has always been (arguably) much more featureful than xchat. Of course, I still use irssi on the console :)


By fault at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

"I think this has seriously changed in the last six months. Kopete is getting nearly as good as gaim, noatun as gRe: one award...too badood as xmms (and I couldn't stand noatun until recently, but now it's pretty usable), knode has always been as good as pan, and koffice 1.2/cvs is a vast improvement."

I can't comment on the messengers (aim + kopete) since I don't use those, but I definitely agree with you on the subject of noatun getting as good as xmms in the recent past.

Where I disagree with you is the news clients. Pan is capable of decoding multi-part binaries, has a task-manager, bandwidth management and handles yEnc (I could continue...). Last time I checked, knode wasn't capable of these things. While knode is a good newsreader, pan is an excellent one.

About koffice: Haven't tried it since 1.1.1. As soon as it handles doc-imports as well as open office it will become my default office. As has been pointed out a lot: there is no such thing as a gnome office, just an assortment of applications.


By joerg gastner at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

:: Where I disagree with you is the news clients. Pan is capable of decoding multi-part binaries, has a task-manager, bandwidth management and handles yEnc (I could continue...). Last time I checked, knode wasn't capable of these things. While knode is a good newsreader, pan is an excellent one.

Whereas I don't do binaries over usenet, so none of those apply to me whatsoever. I care about reading and posting short text. KNode works for me fine.

Which brings out an important point - some of these apps that are supposedly filling the same role are totally different. Evolution versus KMail, for instance. I don't *want* a kitchen sink - I want an email application that is small and simple. I prefer KMail over Evolution or Aethera. What you want in an "email application" might be different. So you choose a different application. I'm not going to say the simplicity and stability of KMail makes it "better" than Evolution any more than I feel like wading into vi versus emacs - which is a *very* similar arguement.

As for Konqueror versus Galeon (I don't use Mozilla - again, I like simple fast apps), I vastly prefer Konqueror's rendering. I am developing a site and checking in Galeon every once in awhile for Moz/NS compatability, and I just don't like the way Mozilla renders pages. That's not a "better" or "worse" or even "simple" versus "featureful", that's just a asthetic choice. Luckily, you can configure Konqueror to use gecko to browse sites if you prefer the way it renders pages. (I don't do that for this project so I can keep cookies and accounts seperate).

:: About koffice: Haven't tried it since 1.1.1. As soon as it handles doc-imports as well as open office it will become my default office.

I installed this last beta, and have been using it heavily. I don't deal with lots of MS office files, so that's not an issue - I do send stuff out, and I just PDF them. I am (was) a MS Word junkie - a serious poweruser with all the key commands memorized and the ability to make really nice looking forms and documents very quickly with it. I have paid for every version of CorelOffice for Linux, HancomOffice, etc. With this latest release (the beta), KWord has become the first modern word processor (i.e. light DTP application) on X that I like. It's fast, offers the fundimental stuff I want to do, and works. It's certainly missing features, and the latest features are a big roughly integrated, but I really like where it's going. And yes, I am the kind of person who can get excited over Word Processors. I've been using them since the 70's, and I think Word 97 is the best to date.

But then, as I say - opinions differ. :) I don't think there is a "best" in something as vague as an email application or newsreader. You obviously care very much about being able to download files off of usenet. I use groups where you get *plonked* if you accidently post a binary. Is it likely that our opinons on what the "best" newsreader is will differ? Probably.

--
Evan (who uses XMMS and XChat, and dosen't have gnome installed on his system (actually, I think I had to install it for galeon))


By Evan "JabberWok... at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

> I installed this last beta, and have been using it heavily. I don't deal with lots of MS office files, so that's not an issue - I do send stuff out, and I just PDF them.

Yay ! How do you PDF kword documents ? I don't see any export filters, and the only way i can think of is printing a file to postcript and then converting it manually, but is there a nicer way ?


By jmk at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

File -> Print, Select "Print to File (PDF)" in the printer name list. Works in every application using kprinter (i.e. virtually all KDE programs).


By Sad Eagle at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

Now I hope you guys don't count him as part of the GNOME community.

Galeon is better than Konqueror as a browser (though Konqueror is becoming better), but Konqueror is definitely better than Nautilus as a file manager.
Evolution vs KMail - there's no comparison, they are 2 different things with their own advantages and disadvantages.


By Stof at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

You people are totally off. Galeon is total crap. It shouldn't even qualify, because it's dependand on Mozilla. Now how cheesy is that ? If you don't believe me, try to Upgrade to Mozilla 1.0 after a clean install of Linux, and you'll get the dependancies message. And as far as KDE not having any good apps - well let's run down the list.

Quanta Plus - Html Editor
Kdevelop - C++ IDE
Qt Designer
KPPP - Dial up Tool
Koffice

Now lets review. Qt Designer is better than Glade. And Gnome doesn't even HAVE anything to compete with KDevelop, Quanta, or KPPP. Now what if you're a programmer or a hmtl coder - you would be left to search for programs for Linux. Hell how would you even connect to the internet ? And We all know Kwrite is better than Gnome's Gedit. And incase you didn't know - The Gimp is NOT a part of Gnome - if you noticed when you run KDE it's not located under the Gnome menu - that's because it's a program that just comes with Linux, like AbiWord or Emacs. If you are going to critisize KDE on it's own forum, at least do a decent evaluation...

-chillin


By Chris Spencer at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

> You people are totally off. Galeon is total crap.

And yet it's my favorite browser. Heck, I even use it as my default browser in KDE!

> It shouldn't even qualify, because it's dependand on Mozilla.

Code Sharing(tm) is a Good Thing(tm). Why duplicate efford when we can use Mozilla's excellent rendering engine? Say whatever you want about Mozilla or extra dependencies, but Mozilla's rendering engine is *good*.

> And Gnome doesn't even HAVE anything to compete with KDevelop

Anjuta

Now can we all stop the flamewar? I'd rather see Gimp killing Photoshop than that KDE duplicates efford by developing it's own image editor just because it can be part of KDE. (And no, I don't care that GTK+ apps look different than QT apps)


By Stof at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

> Heck, I even use it as my default browser in KDE!

Why does this sound kind of stupid to me?


By KDE User at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

Because I am not you.


By Stof at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

It's not stupid. A lot of people use Mozilla and Galeon inside of KDE. You don't HAVE to run Konqueror if you don't want to. Just because you use KDE doesn't mean it's sacriledge to run programs using non KDE/Qt toolkits. I currently use Mozilla because it gives me the same interface between WindowsXP and Linux. The significant majority of KDE/GNOME users use applications from each other's desktops. This is how it works in the real world (tm).


By fault at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

Looking at it from a usability point of view, the KDE desktop
was created with this functionality integrated. Using some other program
that does the same thing....then it´s not KDE anymore,
at least not for me. Also, Konqueror is not a web-browser,
it is a plug-in thing that fits inte the KDE experience.


By KDE User at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

The fact is that (AFAIK), the majority of KDE users don't use exclusively KDE apps. I'm sure many developers do, and some users do, but most users don't.

This stems from the fact that X11 historically has had a wide variety toolkits that applications use. Hell, before KDE/GNOME/CDE, most applications had their own GUI toolkits. People are just use to having several different toolkits in usage at the same time. I don't think most current users used X11 from that era, but the tradition is still there I think.

You're right about Konqueror not being a web browser though (although ironically it's a very nice web browser) :)


By fault at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

> The fact is that...
Really? You have any statistical data on that?

>(AFAIK)
Ah

Anyway, I was only talking about Konqueror/Mozilla. Of course, if you find some
weird app that you want to use, there´s no problem with that. There´s
no point in getting absurd: only KDE-apps! nothing else! etc...


By KDE User at Sat, 2002/09/07 - 5:00am

> Really? You have any statistical data on that?

Of course not. It's hard to provide much solid statistical data on much relating to _desktop_ users on Unices.

I'm just relying on the fact that I haven't met a KDE user (yet), who doesn't have something like gtk+ installed. Of course, it might just be me :)

> Anyway, I was only talking about Konqueror/Mozilla.

Ah, ok. I'll have to agree with you that (AFAIK) the majority of KDE users use Konqy. Of course, Mozilla (and Netscape before it), were/are always desktop/OS independent.

> Of course, if you find some weird app... that you want to use, there´s no problem with that.

Or another app that you prefer.

> There´s no point in getting absurd: only KDE-apps! nothing else! etc...

Yup, I totally agree.


By fault at Sun, 2002/09/08 - 5:00am

"Using some other program that does the same thing....then it´s not KDE anymore,"

What is your point and why should I care that it's not "pure" KDE anymore? Likewise, why should I care that GNOME isn't "pure" anymore if I use KDE apps inside GNOME?
Use the right tool for the right job. And right now, Galeon *is* the right tool for me. I couldn't care less wether it's written for GNOME or KDE.


By Stof at Sat, 2002/09/07 - 5:00am

> Use the right tool for the right job
Of course, you are free to use any application you like, as I said in earlier posts: I'm not telling people what they should use or not.

> What is your point
My point is that the KDE-developers put a lot of effort into their desktop environment, that environment includes Konqueror. Clearly, if you switch Konqueror for something else that does not have the same functionality, you do change KDE as a whole.


By KDE User at Sat, 2002/09/07 - 5:00am

> Clearly, if you switch Konqueror for something else that does not have the same functionality, you do change KDE as a whole.

How is this changing KDE? If you don't use Konqueror to move around files but instead use "mv" in a terminal window, are you changing KDE? If so, I'd say that *every* single KDE user/developer is changing KDE in some way. Perhaps it's KDE developers themselves who are doing it. Perhaps it's a developer using (x)emacs instead of kate/kdevelop (like many developers do). Perhaps it's a developer using cvs instead of cervisia, etc..

This can be related to Konqueror and Mozilla. Kate has features that xemacs doesn't (like KDE integration), and xemacs has features that kate doesn't. This is the same thing with Konqueror and Mozilla. Both have features that the other one does not. It's not right to say "switch Konqueror with something that does not have the same functionality", because Mozilla will never have the same functionality that Konqueror has, and Konqueror will never have the same functionality that Mozilla has.

Once again, as other posters have emphasized, use the right tool for *you* that does the job.


By fault at Sun, 2002/09/08 - 5:00am

> ..but instead use "mv" in a terminal window..
I guess I have to emphasize the "switch" here. Clearly, simply using some app lying around on your system does not change KDE.

> use the right tool for *you* that does the job
Of course.

> It's not right to say "switch Konqueror with something..
Of course it is. Because Konqueror is a part of KDE. Mozilla is not.


By KDE User at Sun, 2002/09/08 - 5:00am

> Clearly, if you switch Konqueror for something else that does not have the same
> functionality,

It is not "switched". It's just a different default. *Konqueror is still available*!

> you do change KDE as a whole.

That's the idea. RedHat is trying to make GNOME and KDE look and act consistent.


By Stof at Mon, 2002/09/16 - 5:00am

> Now can we all stop the flamewar? I'd rather see Gimp killing Photoshop than > that KDE duplicates efford by developing it's own image editor just because > it can be part of KDE. (And no, I don't care that GTK+ apps look different > than QT apps)

Well, GIMP is a great app, I agree. But it suffers some usability problems that could (should) be fixed by making a KDE frontend to it:

-Its UI is totally unusable. You can't minimize the whole app, you have to minimize each dialog and each image at a time. There are different menus for the app and the images, etc...

-You can't drag a file from your desktop to GIMP. It seems to work when GIMP has no picture loaded but it doesn't work if it has at least on picture loaded.

-If you open a picture using GIMP by clicking on it, it opens GIMP anew even if GIMP has already been started. Then you have 2 GIMP main windows, two brushes dialogs etc... and no way to know which GIMP controls which picture.

In conclusion, GIMP is a great tool if you except USABILITY. That's why, when GIMP UI will finally be separated from its core, KDE guys should really make a frontend to it. I even think GNOME guys should do it too. So that GIMP becomes really usable.


By Julien Olivier at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

Indeed.. it'd be good to have a KDE frontend to GIMP, not a KDE equivalent of GIMP. But of course, projects like KDE are developer driven, so if a developer has interest to make a GIMP-like app, especially if the GIMP developers don't split the core from the interface by the next major version (gimp 1.6/2.0), like they've said for the last three years, then by all means make an equivalent for the reasons detailed by parent poster :)


By fault at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

Kimp ?


By GF at Sat, 2002/10/05 - 5:00am

-If you open a picture using GIMP by clicking on it, it opens GIMP anew even if GIMP has already been started. Then you have 2 GIMP main windows, two brushes dialogs etc... and no way to know which GIMP controls which picture.

Umm.. That happens if your doubleclicking is bound to "gimp $file", if however instead you
use "gimp-remote -n $file" then the existing gimp-process will be told to open the file. the "-n" switch tells
gimp-remote to start a new gimp if no existing one is found.

This is a simple bug in kde, can be fixed by "s/gimp/gimp-remote -n/" in the apropriate place.


By Eivind at Fri, 2002/09/13 - 5:00am

Hmmm

I didn't know that. Thanks !

Anyway, why not assigning this action as default for 'gimp' command ?


By Julien Olivier at Fri, 2002/09/13 - 5:00am

"-Its UI is totally unusable. You can't minimize the whole app, you have to minimize each dialog and each image at a time. There are different menus for the app and the images, etc..."

Use virtual desktops. That's what I always do.
And just because you can't minimize the whole app in one click doesn't make the UI "totally unusable". How do you think people draw their artwork if they can't use the UI? Clearly, the UI *is* usable, you just need time to get used to it. I got used to it, the UI is very much usable.

" -You can't drag a file from your desktop to GIMP. It seems to work when GIMP has no picture loaded but it doesn't work if it has at least on picture loaded."

Then how come Gimp opens the picture just fine when I drop a file on it?

" -If you open a picture using GIMP by clicking on it, it opens GIMP anew even if GIMP has already been started. Then you have 2 GIMP main windows, two brushes dialogs etc... and no way to know which GIMP controls which picture."

But this problem isn't big enough to make Gimp "totally unusable". Learn to use Gimp's file dialog! Hint: it has tab completion, just like every GTK+ file dialog.

"In conclusion, GIMP is a great tool if you except USABILITY."

I can USE Gimp just fine, so it is USABLE.


By Stof at Mon, 2002/09/16 - 5:00am

http://www.gnome.org/softwaremap/projects/gimp/

did you forget to take your pills again?


By Cabbage at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

No it's not a gnome app. It just uses Gtk+. It it were a gnome application, it would have to use the whole framework to integrate.


By Stephan at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

I often find myself that when people are critiquing KDE, they mean the projects designed exclusely for KDE by a design team. When people are judging Gnome on the other hand, they include ANY program written in GTK+, such as The Gimp or Gaim to name a few. Both desktop enviroments are worth using, but this kind of judgement is a bit unfair and slanted in the favor of Gnome. And I agree with the other poster, can you really count Galeon as a top broswer when it's just a dependant of Mozilla ? People on here may say that Konqueror is cheesy or a rip-off of Internet Explorer, but at least they coded it themselves. I also agree with the other poster - Konqueror is a better file manager than Nautilis. I'm just curious, if people dislike KDE and think their apps are SOO inferor, then why bother comming here with a bad attitude in the first place. I know you sure as hell wouldn't catch me dead on a Windows XP forum, so why are you here ?

-chillin


By Chris Spencer at Mon, 2002/09/02 - 5:00am

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